Czeck 7.62x45 VZ-52

[smle2009]

Hi all,
Trying to find out a bit more info on the Czeck 7.62X45 VZ-52 round,so far the only info I have found is that it was briefly used in the VZ52/57 rifle and the VZ52 M.G. in the fifties,before being replaced by the soviet 7.62x39mm round.
The headstamp on the example I have is bxn 55,photo'd with a 7.62x39.
Cheers
Tony

 

[TonyE]

Czech 7.72

Originally developed as a 7.5 x 45mm in 1948/49 by the Czechs, it was chambered in an experimental ZK472 rifle.

The changed the calibre to 7.62 x 45mm in 1950 and the earliest headstamp is "bxn 50" on a brass case I believe. This did not meet with Soviet approval so in 1958 they dropped the calibre and adopted the 7.62 x 39. Many Vz52s were converted to the Russian cartridge for the Czech army, but many were also exported in the original calibre to insurgent forces all over the world.

When Castro returned to Cuba to overthrow Batista they were armed with original VZ52s and others were shipped to Israel in the early days. Later millions of rounds were sold off as surplus and went to the US where they were broken down for the bullets and propellant. I was at Thunderbird Arms in Tucson in the early 80s and they had millions of rounds being broken down.

As an aside, when I was in the Kafue National Park in Zambia about eight years ago the game wardens on anti-poacher patrol were armed with converted VZ52s, including Zimbabwian made 7.62 x 39 ammo!

The 7.62 x 45 also comes in green tip tracer, dummy and short range loads.

Regards
Tonye

 

[smle2009]

Many thanks for the detailed info TonyE.
Cheers
Tony

 

[V40]

I have some knwowledge that the round was actually better than the 7.62x39mm round. It had better accuracy and had more stopping power than the pre-mentioned round. The rifle that shoots the cartridge is somewhat of an unusual weapon. It's bayonet was fairly wide and was fitted to the stock on its left side. Egypt had also equipped their Army with them in the early 1960-to the last war Israel had to defend itself from. Yom Kippour I believe?

tonyE, If you want more info or deep history of the weapon itself, just ask. Or even from other people that are curious in the weapon or deeply more info on that cartridge just go ahead and ask.

TonyE, have a question for you. You say it came from Mugawbe's country? You do know if it was from him that he is the worst dictator in Africa's history not with standing one of the worst mass murderous since Stalin. Here is a guy who was trained by the Red Chinese in both politics and unconventional warfare.

V-40

 

[smle2009]

Hi Mark,
I would appreciate any more info on the round that you have.
Cheers
Tony

 

[TonyE]

TonyE, have a question for you. You say it came from Mugawbe's country? You do know if it was from him that he is the worst dictator in Africa's history not with standing one of the worst mass murderous since Stalin. Here is a guy who was trained by the Red Chinese in both politics and unconventional warfare.

V-40

Yes, I do know who Mugabwe is. I have travelled widely in Africa.

I was merely reporting where the ammo came from. What is your question and what is your point?

Regards
tonyE

 

[V40]

No question nor point. I was at one time going to fight for Rhodesia, thats all.

 

[zwerge]

Here are some inert rounds that I have,the brass ones are bxn 52 and the steel ones are zv 64.

 

[cdngunplumber]

I've always had a soft spot for the Czech caliber

here are afew from My collection

Drill, Tracer, Gallery and Blank

 

[V40]

One of the things that puts the ammo in perspective is the following:

NOTE: The M52 Czech model of rounds are explained here as is the comparable M43 Russian.

1) Complete Round Weight: M52(7.62x45mm) is 297.3 grains. For the M43 (7.62x39mm) it is 253.25 grains.

2) Bullet Weight: M52 is 132.1 grains, and the M43 is 122.6 grains.

3) Charge weight: M52 is 27grains and the M42 is 25 grains.

4) Round Length: M52 is 59.7mm. The M43 is 51.3mm.

5) Case Length: The M52 is 45mm. The M43 was 39mm.

6) Bullet Diameter: M52 is 7.62mm. The M43 is also a 7.62mm.

7) Case Diameter at base: M52 is 11.2. The M43 is 11.25mm.

8) Muzzle Velocitys: M52 is 744 meters/sec. The M43 is 710 meters/sec.

Anymore info needed?

 

[zwerge]

Is not the bullet diameter 7.62mm or .310-.311 ?

 

[Sorcerer]

Hi,

here is a few rounds from me. from left:

7,62 x 45 experimental (1946)
7,5 x 45 Z-49 experimental
2 x 7,62 x 45 Z-50
2 x 7,62 x 45 vz.52 ball
7,62 x 45 vz.52 tracer (7,62-Kr-Sv-52)
7,62 x 45 vz.52 svedecny (sorry, I cant translate to english) (7-62-Kr-Sved-52)
2 x 7,62 x 45 vz.52 drill (7,62-Kr-Sk)
2 x 7,62 x 45 vz.52 gallery (7,62-Kr-Rd)
7,62 x 45 vz.52 spotter (7,62-Kr-Z)
4 x 7,62 x 45 vz.52 blank (7,62-Kr-Cv)

Best regards

 

[V40]

Zwerge,


Thanks for correcting me. You are absolutly correct. My fault and I will change it. Good looking out too.

 

[Dutch]

@ Sorcerer

Thank you for showing them all. Missing something in my colection J

 

[hicky1300]

I have some of the original mags for this caliber going spare if anyone is interested.
I would be interested in swapping mags for spare inert rounds as I only have one in my collection

 

[jonnyc]

"svedecny" - Not sure what the translation for this is, but the purple tip round is a "Reference" loading, similar to the Soviet white tip round.
In addition to the pictured rounds, I have a Proof load with a knurled rim.

Tony, where did you get your info that Israel received any weapons or ammo in 7.62x45? I believe this is incorrect, and that the Czechs only sent Israel wartime and very early post-war equipment of German wartime patterns. The only M52 ammo I ever saw in Israel was when a young soldier brought some to me (I ran an armory) and wanted to trade it for some 7.62x39. He had found it in Lebanon, ca. 1985, and thought it was x39.

 

[jonnyc]

Tony? Any info on the question above?

 

[EOD]

Originally developed as a 7.5 x 45mm in 1948/49 by the Czechs, it was chambered in an experimental ZK472 rifle.

Actually it was originally developed in 7.62x45 ("slim" case) in 1946 and later on went to 7.5mm just to switch back to the then "new" 7.62mm we all know today.

 

[ken68]

I have just come across one today , I know this thread was a while back ,
Just a lucky find in my ammo boxes , are they quite collectable head stamps bxn 55

Cheers