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Does this WW1 German grenade exist?

dano1917

dano1917

RIP
This is from Delhomme's book on WW1 grenades. The one on the right, most of us WW1 junkies are familiar with, the large box petard. It is the one on the left that intrigues me because I have never seen one. Has anyone ever seen one, does anyone have one. The second picture is one I made on a whim while partying. Just want to know if anyone knows of its existance. It would appear to be more of a field expedient than the large box petard as that one is kind of uniform in the making. I'm thinking the smaller petard is possibly earlier and made in second line artisan works??? Dano
 

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Sorry but just had to bump this thread as I have to know if there is one of these littler German petards in existance. Ulterior motive = Picture for my book. I already have amassed tons of pics of some really rare WW1 German grenades and mortars and it just would not be complete without a picture of this gem...Dano
 
Looks like a German

Demolition charge, in a waxed thin card sealed box wired onto a stick with a fuze stuck in. No doubt assembled locally and the survival of these charges being made of basically paper is poor. But I did have one years ago, but to find same on a stick is another matter. The drawing is likely based on intelligence reports or a period photo, weather one would have been saved is another matter.
 
Thank you so much Gordon, that certainly would explain the rarity. Thing is I still feel The Delhomme books are the WW1 grenade bible, but with the line drawings things get gray in a hurry...Dano
 
Maybe this?

This was sold to me some time ago as a German WW1 petard charge packet. It had since been dispelled as a civilian WW1 era Demolition packet, that was used by the Germans in the First World War. Could this be what you are speaking of Gordon? If so a tremendous weight would be lifted??? Dano
 

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I don't recall a label like that

or if I have an image of it. I will see what I can find if anything, it was a long time ago now.
 
I believe that that one did exist, however likely only in very small quantities. I think Delhomme drew his pictures from actual examples or period photos. In a quote from Delhomme on that particular drawing "petard raquettes were manufactured in the front lines with a 206 gram regulation explosive charge recognizable by their primer channel located in the centre or the zinc evelope. There were infinite variations generally made of ration tins loaded with black powder, bullets, hobnails, or scrap iron."

This appears to be one made with a regulation charge rather than a ration tin. Likely manufactured by German Engineers in or near the front lines to suppliment the regulation grenades that were in short supply. Being made in the front lines, they would all vary somewhat in form, depending on who was carving the handle. I believe I have seen the photo this may have been drawn from in the Illustrated London News or Illustrated War News as a photo of captured German grenades. Might be wrong on that though.

Basically Delhomme used this drawing as representative of a German Petard Raquette. There were lots of different ones.

The French and British were no different, they all made them.
 
Good to hear from you sgt Lynn and Paul the grenade and G gordon. I think from informations provided I have (at least in my mind) put together the chain of events on the German Petards. Like all theories it may be full of holes (no pun intended). I believe that the smaller petard was the first and was very short lived when the more uniform large box petard arrived on the scene the little one got obsoleted. From the rudimentary drawing in the Delhomme book, I agree that it looks like a tobacco or sardine tin of some sort wired to a wooden paddle if you will. The fuse was the simple match light and was inserted in the tin at the centre. I have read they were filled with nails, scraps of iron and such and of course explosive. I think the small one was made by an enterprising soldier, then the army took over and developed the much more uniform box petard, which I think most will agree was the pre-runner to the stick grenade. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the little one did exist as Delhomme, though his books may be a bit dated are still the "bible" of WW1 Grenades in my mind. I just don't understand why more examples have not survived. By the time the larger box petard came along they were made in second line artisan shops with at least general specifications. I would fancy the small German WW1 petard to be similar in thought to the British Jam Tin Bomb of the same period. How true it is that all combatents had a petard design or two of their own. I would give a months salary just to locate a picture of the small German petard. In fact in about 1998 there was a reputible dealer that had advertised "smaller German WW1 Racquette petard grenade". the price was 100.00 US so you could imagine I could not order this one fast enough. Well what they sent me was a French WW1 3rd army Petard. Needless to say when I opened the package I was a tad disappointed. I kept it because it was a fine original example. Anyway I wish to bore you no further so I will leave it at that. How much of this is proof positive? NONE. But it is my idea on this rare little jewell and I do hope to meet one someday. I feel, at least in what I am covering in this book that this little petard is the biggest question mark I have and hope to someday at least be able to prove beyond doubt that this ellusive little German WW1 petard grenade did indeed exist..............Dano
 
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I feel I have to add something. Unfortunately one can not "touch" everything that he would be happy to, so these references sometimes are the only available witness of some historical event. And - in spite of "uniformity" of mass production, every factory - every time! - has its own peculiarities! It's a rule - no uniformity even at the Germans... That's my conclusion from few decades of research. I'll be glad to help in the future too, so feel free to ask everything about German hand grens.
 
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WotTW

Yes it is in Weapons of the Trench War 1914 - 1918 by Anthony Saunders. It is a shame it is such a terrible picture, could not use it to save my life, but anyway got my proof positive of its existance so at least I can write of it......Dano
 

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Kugel Panier

Hello Dano. Would you be interested in pictures of my really juicy panier for the upcoming book? Just thought about that yesterday.
 
dano1917 said:
Good to hear from you sgt Lynn and Paul the grenade and G gordon. I think from informations provided I have (at least in my mind) put together the chain of events on the German Petards. Like all theories it may be full of holes (no pun intended). I believe that the smaller petard was the first and was very short lived when the more uniform large box petard arrived on the scene the little one got obsoleted. From the rudimentary drawing in the Delhomme book, I agree that it looks like a tobacco or sardine tin of some sort wired to a wooden paddle if you will. The fuse was the simple match light and was inserted in the tin at the centre. I have read they were filled with nails, scraps of iron and such and of course explosive. I think the small one was made by an enterprising soldier, then the army took over and developed the much more uniform box petard, which I think most will agree was the pre-runner to the stick grenade. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the little one did exist as Delhomme, though his books may be a bit dated are still the "bible" of WW1 Grenades in my mind. I just don't understand why more examples have not survived. By the time the larger box petard came along they were made in second line artisan shops with at least general specifications. I would fancy the small German WW1 petard to be similar in thought to the British Jam Tin Bomb of the same period. How true it is that all combatents had a petard design or two of their own. I would give a months salary just to locate a picture of the small German petard. In fact in about 1998 there was a reputible dealer that had advertised "smaller German WW1 Racquette petard grenade". the price was 100.00 US so you could imagine I could not order this one fast enough. Well what they sent me was a French WW1 3rd army Petard. Needless to say when I opened the package I was a tad disappointed. I kept it because it was a fine original example. Anyway I wish to bore you no further so I will leave it at that. How much of this is proof positive? NONE. But it is my idea on this rare little jewell and I do hope to meet one someday. I feel, at least in what I am covering in this book that this little petard is the biggest question mark I have and hope to someday at least be able to prove beyond doubt that this ellusive little German WW1 petard grenade did indeed exist..............Dano
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Hi Dano,hope all is well with you..One more comment on this,I have a U.S. enginer manual that shows how to make one of the Petards that looks very close to that German model,I beleive its the number 3 manual.
Take care
Vinny:thrasher::thrasher:
 
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