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Finally found one, APFSDS-T

9

917601

Well-Known Member
Just for interest. Long story short, just lost my best friend - ever - to Post Traumatic Stress, committed suicide. Went to my local museum looking to donate some of his Iraqi war memorabilia, the director gave me this: a 105mm dummy APFSDS-T, which he said they had no room for. RIP James. I will miss you till the end of my days. We were more than brothers, he went to Iraq, I went to Colombia, we both " made it" out....had plans, now this, devastating.
 

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917601,

Very sorry to hear of the loss of your friend, very tragic.

Would it be possible for you to take additional pictures of this training round i.e. complete round, any base markings, dummy projectile markings and wood container (if original to the round)?

Thank you very much.

Brian
 
If there is an interest in this round, will do...I go to Texas for his memorial the 23rd, please revive the post after then...he and I both collected this stuff.
 
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bdgreen said:
917601,

Very sorry to hear of the loss of your friend, very tragic.

Would it be possible for you to take additional pictures of this training round i.e. complete round, any base markings, dummy projectile markings and wood container (if original to the round)?

Thank you very much.

Brian
Click to expand...

Headstamp on base, some light rust , " 105MM M150B1" and in smaller engraved lettering " LOT NOR-4-13-1970". I have the complete round only, no container. The round cleaned up fairly well, but discoloration in the metal plating and a few scratches running longitudal ( from base to resin projectile)...assumed to be from practice loadings.
 
917601,

It is interesting that your cartridge case is dated 1970. For service rounds, the M150B1 is used on HEP-T (HESH in the UK), Practice HEP-T, and Flechette projectiles. It isn't used for the Dart rounds, as the M148A1B1 is used for APFSDS-T and HEAT rounds due to its shorter primer. Your case was manufactured in Vernon California by Norris Industries in 1970, which was during the Vietnam War, just as it was starting to wind down. Your case was evidently pulled out of inventory to produce the drill round. It most likely wasn't needed in Vietnam, because the U.S. preferred to use the APDS and HEAT rounds against armor. The APDS rounds use the M115B1 case. The APFSDS-T rounds weren't being produced at that time.
 
My first thought from your post was the round was not " authentic", however your explanation makes sense as it is heavy (40 some pounds) and the casing has been filled with something to give it the weight of a live round. The countless small " scratches" and discolorations running lengthwise indicate it may have been chambered many times ( drill round) .Thank you for your assessment.
 
Your round is the current training configuration for drill rounds in tanks. It has the plastic simulated projectile crimped in a real case. They are used to teach the troops what the real projectiles look like, and they are weighted so the crew will know how heavy they are when they have to put them in the ready racks, and chamber them. Another reason for the correct weight is so that the drivers will know how heavy their tanks are when loaded with a full load of ammo. They will use the fully loaded tanks to test bridging equipment, traction in mud and sand and even loading them onto rail cars or airplanes.

In the old days, they used real projectiles crimped in the cases with powder bags full of inert propellant in the cases. That was before they came up with the idea of the plastic projectile. I have a 120mm Abrams drill round similar to your 105mm one. The drill rounds with real projectiles were much more expensive to produce. During the Vietnam War, the government even bought the scrap projectiles that were out of spec, or had defects. I'm sure they were using these defective projos for training and evaluation.

I'm sorry if my first post was misleading. My goal was to explain why you had a 1970's case on a round that was produced at least 30 to 40 years later. The USMC had Abrams tanks chambered with the 105mm gun in the first gulf war. They hadn't receive the updated tanks with the 120mm smoothbore gun, as most of the Army had already.
 
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This is a Ft. Knox 105mm Dummy made to simulate the loading and handling of the 105mm M735 APFSDS round. FT. KNOX, tank school has these durable dummies made in both 120mm and 105mm for both the APFSDS and HEAT rounds used to teach loading and handling in the M1 Abrams and M1A1 Abrams tanks. SO SORRY FOR THE LOSS OF YOUR FRIEND AND AMERICAN HERO!

Jason
 
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