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For MILLS SPECIALISTS!
- Thread starter Spgr30
- Start date
It's a Roland, and looks to be one with a Mills pattern centrepiece. Therefore it is probably a Roland example made by William Mills at his Birmingham works in January 1915, on behalf of Compagnie Belge des Munitions Militaires, for touting to the French Government. (The TA&S base plug is from an August 1915 No.5.)
In which museum does this Roland reside?
Photos show a sectioned Roland held at the Birmingham museum, with the original early design of centrepiece, incorporating the threads for a base plug. Again the body and this pattern of centrepiece were most probably made by William Mills, although just possibly may have been made by Compagnie BMM - they supplied Mills with a couple of examples to copy.
Bonnex will be able to confirm or correct the above...
Tom.
In which museum does this Roland reside?
Photos show a sectioned Roland held at the Birmingham museum, with the original early design of centrepiece, incorporating the threads for a base plug. Again the body and this pattern of centrepiece were most probably made by William Mills, although just possibly may have been made by Compagnie BMM - they supplied Mills with a couple of examples to copy.
Bonnex will be able to confirm or correct the above...
Tom.
Attachments
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Nice item.
Unless it is aluminium I would suggest it is a Roland with a few bits missing and No 5 base plug added. There were several body styles. I have not got a photograph with an exact match but the attached images are pretty close. Some Mills made Roland grenades did get to France but I believe only for marketing purposes by Roland's people (or maybe for court cases).
No Roland or Mills-Roland grenades were purchased by the British War Office as far as I know. They were examined but did not pass testing. The few grenades sent to France in March 1915 were Mills grenades of the No 5 type and a box of Mills steel cylindrical grenades.
Tom,
We crossed
I get the centre piece connection but I am not 100% sure that BMM didn't have the CPs produced in aluminium post the Mills association. I say this only because I have an album from BMM comparing the Mills No 5 type with their own Roland models and the Roland CPs are aluminium by the look of it. The photographs in my previous are from it.
Also I have not seen the body style in the UK (doesn't mean a great deal).
But there was the rumoured 'George' manufacture...
Another image:
We crossed
I get the centre piece connection but I am not 100% sure that BMM didn't have the CPs produced in aluminium post the Mills association. I say this only because I have an album from BMM comparing the Mills No 5 type with their own Roland models and the Roland CPs are aluminium by the look of it. The photographs in my previous are from it.Also I have not seen the body style in the UK (doesn't mean a great deal).
But there was the rumoured 'George' manufacture...
Another image:
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Thanks, Norman.
I'd be happy to accept that BMM adopted the Mills centrepiece, with threads in the grenade body to accommodate No.5-style base plug rather than their original base plug pattern. Just difficult to find the evidence.
As for the W&J George examples, I believe two samples were made, with multi-piece centre with separate brass detonator sleeve. Were more produced...?
Tom.
Photo of base plug:
I'd be happy to accept that BMM adopted the Mills centrepiece, with threads in the grenade body to accommodate No.5-style base plug rather than their original base plug pattern. Just difficult to find the evidence.
As for the W&J George examples, I believe two samples were made, with multi-piece centre with separate brass detonator sleeve. Were more produced...?
Tom.
Photo of base plug:
Attachments
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I expect the very short honeymoon period between Mills and Dewandre produced the aluminium CP and the 'base plug' with the thread that became a standard. I wonder if the clues sit in that Mills-Dewandre patent application. The BMM album claims that the plug and one or two other components were from Dewandre's fertile mind.
I never got anywhere looking for George; mind you that research was along time ago, long before computers were invented (well OK it seems like that). Might be worth revisiting.
