Funky things people do

[Lou]

Ok,so Im browsing an auction site and stumble upon a "Jap Mine" for sale. The advertisment photos show the mine body,with what is obviously a Japanese type grenade fuze sticking out the top,with the top portion of a Japanese grenade also visable.So I gave it a shot,won the auction,it arrived.I took it out of the box,and after about an hour of wiggling,this grenade slid out of the fuze well.Someone had set the grenade in the fuze well of the mine with plumbers putty.

Everything cleaned up nice.No damage to either piece.

My question to you guys,do you think this was put together as a forgery/fake,a fantacy piece,or maybe as an example of a improvised munition?
Are there any stories of US or Japenese troops using mines or grenades in this fashion?

 

[Jolly Green]

I don't know why it was done but it's sure a nice two-fer.
I already know better than to ask which auction site.:hmmmm:

 

[V40]

Dito on what john has said. I believe that the Japanese would of made such a device with the grenade being the fuse and the detonater at the same time. It looks like it would fit perfectly inside the hole, doesn't? We did the same thing in Vietnam using the M14.


V40

 

[HAZORD]

I know for a fact, that over the past 20 years, it was a practice in Africa, to use 2 or 3 Russian antipersonnel mines on top of an antitank mine as a guaranteed way to detonate the AT mine. In this instance, it is a Jap grenade in a U.S. mine, so the possibility of it being a real field expediant is a bit lower, but it seems that it would work.

I'm wondering if any deminers in our group have seen this before?

 

[pointblank0]

I would say that it is a very expensive way of making a fake. I think more likely improvised to maybe be used as some different booby trap or something.

 

[Lou]

The thing that confused me a bit,was that the grenade had been in that mine for quite some time I think. It was in there long enough where the very bottom and top collar were aged,with a patina.The middle portion of the grenade body,that was covered with the plumbers putty,was obviously well protected,as can be seen,the paint held up well.
Could it be done long enough ago,back in the days of cheap ordnance? ha ha.
Im still hoping someone can ID it as a school example.

 

[Dirt Detective]

Hi Lou,
Great score..I would have bid on it. This is a M1A1 practice mine..I can see the little circle on the side of the mine body (first pic) that has been filled or taped over and the original blue paint (practice) in the bottom of the fuze well.
Not sure if this would work in real like from just a grenade blast..If the mines booster was in it maybe..but then the grenade would stick half way out.
Here is the top half of a HE mine fuze and it sits on top of the booster. I have it next to a practice mine fuze for size comparison. But then again maybe it would work..and someone made a repo for display.

 

[US-Subs]

The Japanese did a lot of improvised mines, yes. But I have never seen one involving US ordnance. In addition, they improvised when things were at their worst, using materials like 25mm cases, modified bomb fuzes, wooden boxes, concrete blocks etc. Never on an improvised piece have I see a pristine grenade. Good shape indicates good times, supply wise. Likewise, I have never seen the Japanese use plumber's putty or similar materials on anything improvised. In addition to the sites I've been to to look at Jap ordnance, I've recovered probably over 100 photos just of improvised stuff. Never anything similar. Its possible, but I have my doubts.

There were some improvised items that were produced in significant numbers in makeshift "factories" in the PI and such (last ditch home defense pieces) which are sometimes found in "like new shape" (i.e. the pipe type grenades) but there are few in design. A mixing of ordnance types and nationalities would imply combat zones and shifting lines/captured equipment.

My guess would be that it was done back here, or as a method to get the pieces back here. It could have even been a training piece to show a potential method of improvisation. I doubt very much it was Japanese done.

Here is a photo I recently found of an improvised grenade. I've seen plenty of grenades improvised from 25mm cases, but this was the first fuzed from the primer end of the case, and with this style of initiator (most often seen with plain time fuse). Notice how the materials are somewhat cobbled and worn - at the time of the photos - I particularly like the location of the photo, it was taken at one of the Intell centers, this one on Oahu, T.H. - Territory of Hawaii. Easy to forget that Hawaii was not a US State at that time.

 

[Harvey]

Hi all, my experience is mostly EOD/demining in Africa and I have seen similar things done there. I have seen TM-57s with UZRG series and UBRV-M75 fuses used to function the mines by tripwire. I also encountered a BRM-75 grenade jammed into the top fusewell of a TM-57 for tripwire initiation, and an 82mm HE mortar 3/4 buried with the remains of a POMZ 75g TNT charge in the fusewell at the same site.

Information from one of the engineers who laid these devices reflected a shortage of AP mines for the defensive works and improvisation based on other ammunition was necessary to fill this gap.