German 20mm HE

[orcutteod]

I was hoping I could get some more info on this German WWII 20mm HE round. The numbers on the bottom of the projectile are P37025f 1939 and on the fuse 2cmKpf.1502F 43mso593 and a Luftwaffe proof mark with 22 in the middle. I'm used to seeing more markings on the base of the shell. And it looks to me I have a dated 43 shell and a dated 1939 projectile.
Thanks

 

[Grenademan2005]

Yes, it is an early projectile because of the copper driving band. Surelly a complet made round from spare parts. Projectile is repainted, original ones had stencils on.

 

[Weasel]

Hi Orcutteod,
What you have there is a 2cm Solothurn round, and as mentioned by Grenademan it is an early one due to the copper drive band.
I notice that it has a AZ1502 direct action fuze fitted and as far as i am aware that fuze was for use on the 2cm Mauser HE round, while the Solothurn HE round used the AZ5045, i have attached a few pictures for you to see what the original paint and stencilling looked like, a nice round to have in your collection.
Best regards Weasel.

 

[Grenademan2005]

What is the 2cm Mauser HE round?

 

[Weasel]

Hi Miguel,
Sorry i should have given more info the round i was referring to was the MG 151/20 cannon ammunition manufactured by Mauser.
Best regards Weasel.

 

[bombasz]

Az-5045

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45770&stc=1&d=1294515302
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45822&stc=1&d=1294560174

http://www.municion.org/

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2cm Sprenggranatpatrone L'Spur mit Zerleger

[/FONT]The Germans used 8 different 20mm case types during the period 1935-1945.

The 20x72mm Oerlikon, 20x80mm Oerlikon, 20x82mm Mauser, 20x105B Solothurn and 20x105R Solothurn were all used in the air-to-air role.

The 20x110mm Oerlikon, 20x120mm Madsen and the 20x138B Solothurn were all used in the ground-to-air role.

 

[Grenademan2005]

Hi Miguel,
Sorry i should have given more info the round i was referring to was the MG 151/20 cannon ammunition manufactured by Mauser.
Best regards Weasel.

Hi:
I was thinking in the MG rounds too, but the word Mauser confused me. Do you think that all the 2cm Fuzes marked Luftwaffe were for onboard ammo? Or they were used on 2cm Flak too?

 

[Weasel]

Hi Miguel,
As i don't have any info to contradict that i would say yes the Luftwaffe marked fuzes were only used in the on-board aircraft systems and not in the Flak role. Perhaps another member can confirm this for us,
Best regards Weasel.

 

[Grenademan2005]

I have some AZ 47 44 41, (it is how they are marked), fuzes Luftwaffe marked, but when I screw one in one of my MG151/20 shells it doesnt match, it is small for the top of the shell.

 

[Tmine35]

Flak units were organized under Luftwaffe, thus I see no reason why some of the ammo components would not have Luftwaffe acceptance stamps as well.

 

[blackwatch]

Hi Miguel,
As i don't have any info to contradict that i would say yes the Luftwaffe marked fuzes were only used in the on-board aircraft systems and not in the Flak role. Perhaps another member can confirm this for us,
Best regards Weasel.

Fuzes on the mg 151 rounds , are not used on the 2cm flak rounds
Only for use on the mg 151 rounds.

 

[Grenademan2005]

And how we can know which ones were used for each round?

 

[orcutteod]

Weasel,
I noticed your 20mm projectile has a threaded insert on the base. I have one too that is backed out further. What is the purpose of this? Thanks for the replies so far.

 

[Grenademan2005]

It was for the Tracer.

 

[orcutteod]

Interesting the threaded screw on extension must have been for added fuel life for the tracer element.

 

[bombasz]

2cm flak shell

 

[Caracal]

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45770&stc=1&d=1294515302

Hey it's my round! i have sold it few months ago... you should indicate the pic comes from MUNICION.ORG

regards

 

[orpheus72]

And how we can know which ones were used for each round?

I know the fuze on my 20x138B round is an AZ48 and on my 20x82 MG round is a ZZ1505A fuze

I'm not quite sure they are correct for those projectiles.

 

[bombasz]

Hey it's my round! i have sold it few months ago... you should indicate the pic comes from MUNICION.ORG

regards

I wrote there

excuse me

 

[Grenademan2005]

I know the fuze on my 20x138B round is an AZ48 and on my 20x82 MG round is a ZZ1505A fuze

I'm not quite sure they are correct for those projectiles.

Your two fuzes are right on those projectiles.