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German 37mm Squeezebore

S

Spaceinvader

Well-Known Member
Hello!
Went to my local yearly militaria show today, typical stuff, lots of badges and uniforms, equipment and other miscellaneous stuff. Not much in the way of ord, 75$ 2cm rounds, 105mm Leopard 1 casings with 18pdr projectiles in them, not great! Although this caught my eye pretty quick!

It seems to be a WW2 German looking squeezebore round. I got it cheap (if its real) for 75$. It seems to be real, hefty with some weight, and made of steel and aluminum. On the side it has been stamped "EMPTY" and beside that "6-25-59". Both look to have been stamped on at the same time. Other than that there is no markings. Paint does not look original, and what looks like a fuze on the front is scratched up and dented. Its got 8 holes in the top flange, and what looks like a tracer hole in the bottom.
From my measurements it is 37mm in diameter in the middle between the two flanges, and both flanges are 57mm, and it is 148mm long. Can anyone tell me if this is a real projectile? Its very well made and if it is a fake, not to worried as it is very well made. If any other details are needed I can provide them. Thanks very much,
Rhys squeezebore1.jpgsqueezebore2.jpgsqueezebore3.jpgsqueezebore4.jpgsqueezebore5.jpg
 
WOW you lucky person, you did well there.
Can you measure it over the flanges please, it may be 5cm.
Dave.
 
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I just realized my calipers were 7mm off, the flanges are 50mm in diameter, not 57mm. I would assume then this is a 37x249R, PaK 36 PzGr. 40. Can anyone confirm?
 
Spaceinvader said:
I just realized my calipers were 7mm off, the flanges are 50mm in diameter, not 57mm. I would assume then this is a 37x249R, PaK 36 PzGr. 40. Can anyone confirm?
Click to expand...

Definitely a 5cm projectile not a 3.7cm. With taper bore projectiles measure OVER the flange not at the narrowest point.
Here's a few photos of similar 5cm projectiles.
The one on the left isn't real in my opinion but I've not made up my mind if its a fake either. Its solid but is from an old collection and very well made, perhaps a military mock up. The rest are relic and real.
Dave.

IMG_0982.jpgIMG_0983.jpg
 
This projectile is a practice (Übung) one ,with a dummy fuze
On the fuze you can see one arrow.
Nice find.
 
Thanks very much, didnt know there was a practice projectile. I saw the arrow too but was not sure if it was a scratch that happened to look like an arrow or not.
 
Hello,

First time I see such a german squeezebore round. I only know 2.8cm, 4.2cm and 7.5cm.
Does anyone could post documentation ? Thanks.

Regards
[h=2][/h]
 
I was wondering, what is the metal piece on the bottom for? Did a tracer unit screw into it? Also how hard would it be to find a casing?
 
Just to be clear, this 50mm squeeze bore that Rhys found was intended to be fired from a Pak 38 antitank gun with a squeeze bore adapter on the barrel? It uses a standard Pak 38 shell casing?
 
M8owner said:
Just to be clear, this 50mm squeeze bore that Rhys found was intended to be fired from a Pak 38 antitank gun with a squeeze bore adapter on the barrel? It uses a standard Pak 38 shell casing?
Click to expand...

It doesn't use a squeeze bore adapter as with the British Littlejohn, the barrel itself tapers along much of its length
It starts at 5cm and tapers down to 3.7cm. It would need a 5cm case.
The more common taper bore 28/20 starts at 2.8cm and tapers down to 2.0cm. The mouth of the case on this is 2.8cm in diameter.
Same with the 7.5cm. The case mouth is 7.5cm and when the flanges taper down when fired.


Dave.
 
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Thank you, Dave. I am aware of the design of the German squeeze bore guns in 28mm, 42mm and 75mm. However, I find no references to a 50mm Pak 41. Rhys' shell was designed for gun that does not exist?
 
M8owner said:
Thank you, Dave. I am aware of the design of the German squeeze bore guns in 28mm, 42mm and 75mm. However, I find no references to a 50mm Pak 41. Rhys' shell was designed for gun that does not exist?
Click to expand...

Ah I understand your question now. I've never seen any info about the case for the 5cm taper bore projectiles but some weapon or test barrel must have been around in order to fire them, see post 6 above, there is a fired on there. Anyone else have any info on this?

Dave.
 
It uses a standard Pak 38 shell casing?
Click to expand...
Well, I just think. 5 cm Pak 38 cases could be theoretically used for test firings of this 5/3.7 cm gun, but it was rather impossible, a service squeeze bore round was planned with a standard 5 cm Pak 38 case. Dimensions of the case had to be altered in such a way, to make it impossible to accidentally load the full calibre round into a squeeze bore gun. :)
 
Clearly that makes sense, but is it true ?

The 2PR Littlejohn used a standard (dimension wise) 2PR case....so there were probably situations where the littlejohn adapter was fired off the end of the barrel? -- Ok, I agree thats an adapter and not an entire barrel, so conceivable you could forget it was on.

But what about the German Squeezebores, were there differences that prevented the wrong round being inserted into the wrong breech? For example, while I would assume the Pak41 crews were never issue the wrong rounds (eg Pzgr39), was the Pak41 case far different to the standard Kwk40 (6339st) case?

Rich
 
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