german case brass electroplating

[rickwedlock]

i've got together a reasonable collection of german rounds and i'd like to restore them. i thought about brass electroplating the cases but that didn't work out first time. (they turned copper not brass)! i then hot brass brushed them which worked a treat. however i began to wonder if all the cases were originally brassed or did the germans leave some with a steel finish. i'd hate to restore them to later find out i'd done it wrong.

 

[Fred]

Hi there
Indeed the Germans had plain steel cases during WW2. Many were lacquered and some seem to be left bare. I assume they may have been oiled or waxed to stop them rusting.
Fred

 

[BMG50]

The cases were also phosphated and lacquered, a lot of cases were copper washed, not always brass, it was about protection for storage rather than looks.

 

[M8owner]

I have a large batch of 50mm Pak 38 cases in nice condition. Half appear to be brass plated without much tarnish over the years - still appear yellow. The other half are much darker copper plated with well developed patinas.

 

[Alpini]

Not to forget zinc coated cases (mostly naval as far as I know)

 

[rickwedlock]

thanks guys. i'll brass plate them all by the way the copper plate would be really easy. if you dip the case in a hot solution of copper sulphate it instantly coats the steel with copper. no electroplating needed.

 

[rickwedlock]

this is the result i obtained. the round on the left is how the centre one was before i hot brass brushed it and the one on the right will be the next to be brassed. i did try to electroplate it but apparently you can't electroplate directly onto steel with brass so it would need a nickel coating first, something to do with the periodic table. anyway if i want to electroplate it i can now

 

[rickwedlock]

these are the rounds i'd like to restore.

 

[Quincy]

That is a very impressive collection very well displayed

 

[rickwedlock]

thanks my plan is to get an example of every ww2 british and german AP and HE.

 

[Quincy]

I would be careful undertaking the plating or all these rounds, they will never look right. Some have corrosion or rust and if you add copper wash on top of rust it will look artificial. You have an exceptional collection and some items are very rare, don't rush ahead with a process you cant easily undo

 

[rickwedlock]

i want pristine rounds and the 5cm case i've shown is just a tester. the plan is to hot brass brush them so i can also electroplate without using another base metal.

 

[pzjgr]

I would really think it out, many of them look great as is...

I had a 7,5cm KwK 40 case that I got long ago that was water recovered, copper washed steel. It was heavily pitted along one side and moderately pitted the rest of the way...

I was young and dumb and impatient, did a crappy job with some body filler (lumpy, not well done!) and sprayed it with Testors brass metallic paint. Looked OK, but I never liked it. Picked up a much nicer one, so decided to really work on the old one.

Sanded all the old paint off of it, and the body filler until all was smooth (but still a lot of uneveness and pits), went over it with body filler again, block sanded it, body filler, sand, body filler, sand...finally did a coat of sandable primer, wet sanded, then went to an auto parts store where they have a ton of good, automotive color match metallic colors. I decided to go with a steel case color.

Here is a before photo, while working on it, the final product, then complete with a Milcorem resin 7,5cm PzGr projectile. Needs to be re-stenciled but you get the idea. These Milcorem projectiles are fantastic!

Take a look at the selection of auto color match metallics in spray cans, might be perfect...

 

[Quincy]

I would really think it out, many of them look great as is...

I had a 7,5cm KwK 40 case that I got long ago that was water recovered, copper washed steel. It was heavily pitted along one side and moderately pitted the rest of the way...

I was young and dumb and impatient, did a crappy job with some body filler (lumpy, not well done!) and sprayed it with Testors brass metallic paint. Looked OK, but I never liked it. Picked up a much nicer one, so decided to really work on the old one.

Sanded all the old paint off of it, and the body filler until all was smooth (but still a lot of uneveness and pits), went over it with body filler again, block sanded it, body filler, sand, body filler, sand...finally did a coat of sandable primer, wet sanded, then went to an auto parts store where they have a ton of good, automotive color match metallic colors. I decided to go with a steel case color.

Here is a before photo, while working on it, the final product, then complete with a Milcorem resin 7,5cm PzGr projectile. Needs to be re-stenciled but you get the idea. These Milcorem projectiles are fantastic!

Take a look at the selection of auto color match metallics in spray cans, might be perfect...

I agree, OP's projectiles look really nice as is and it will hurt their value to mess with them as this stage.

 

[rickwedlock]

each to their own. i will carry on with my tinkering and i'm fairly certain i will achieve a near perfect finish, which is actually easy if you start of with a nice case. it's the pitted cases that will pose a problem (i need to find a heat resistant filler). i'll share my findings with a few step by step pics for those that might want to do the same.

 

[rickwedlock]

pzjgr
that's lovely looking round. funnily enough it was my kwk 40 case that made me think about rebrassing them

 

[rickwedlock]

it's only when you see the pitting in the base that has been covered in brass that you know it has been electroplated and is not original

 

[rickwedlock]

today i tried to experiment with hot brass brushing over filler. unfortunately it was a failure, as the brushing action removed the filler and exposed the pitting beneath. so it looks like filled cases would need to be electroplated to get them looking good. however either the filler or some other coating would need to be electrically conductive to allow the plating process to work. anyone got any ideas?

 

[Quincy]

today i tried to experiment with hot brass brushing over filler. unfortunately it was a failure, as the brushing action removed the filler and exposed the pitting beneath. so it looks like filled cases would need to be electroplated to get them looking good. however either the filler or some other coating would need to be electrically conductive to allow the plating process to work. anyone got any ideas?

Yes you would would have to weld up the pitted areas or solder them (soldering on something that is not brass is a technical challenge as it sometimes never attaches itself to the steel no matter how much flux you use or how hot you make the steel/solder) There is also the danger that the plating would react differently to lead than steel.

Soldering something like a 75mm KwK 40 shell with lots of pitting would take ages. Welding would be quicker but that's a big outlay of funds. You would then have to invest in an angle grinder to make the metal even. Welding would be a better and more permanent option as you know that it would react the same way as the rest of the steel to the plating process.

Have a look at what this chap does repairing a destroyed helmet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKBb-3O2Uog&t=186s

Both options used

 

[kiwieod]

you could try a better filler,there are some good high temperature machinable epoxy fillers available