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German WW1 8 cm FLAK case
- Thread starter Der_Feldgraue
- Start date
AZ23-28
Well-Known Member
Der_Feldgraue
Well-Known Member
I have Friedrich Niemeyer for "FN". The lenght of the case is about 593 mm.
Der_Feldgraue
Well-Known Member
Very nice! Never saw this one before!!
Der_Feldgraue
Well-Known Member
Very nice collection of very rare FLAK shells!
Der_Feldgraue
Well-Known Member
Maybe yours is for the 8,8 cm Flak, which had a shorter case.
Tony without Kaiser
Member
Old thread I know, but is 7.7cm (with oAz fuze) essentially the same round as was fired in the 7.7cm Feldkanone C/96 (n/A)?
These were the 7.7cm mounted on trucks were they not? However, with a completely different cannon that looks like a little 8,8cm FLAK is that correct?
H
Hoeksel
Guest
FN = Friedrich Niemeyer and the 8 cm K. Zugflak L/45 case is 77x586R100. I am not aware of any 8 cm or 8,8 cm case measuring 593 mm.
FN = Fritz Neymeyer, Nrnberg - same as P94 code of 2nd WW. He was also co-founder (together with the Fr. Krupp A.G.) of the famous Znder und Apparatebau GmbH (Zndapp) factory which started producing fuzes at end of WW1 and later produced the famous motorcycles. Complete history here: http://www.nuernberginfos.de/bedeutende-nuernberger/fritz-neumeyer.html
The calibre of the 8 cm Flak case is 80x586R100, not 77 mm.
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charley777
Well-Known Member
Yes i also have what i thought was a Friedrich Niemeyer (FN in a circle) 8cm Flak case. It has not been shortened and is 585mm long with a base diameter of 100mm. I had always understood it to be 77mm calibre but see that Alpini says otherwise. So...more info please....if i had a gun outside i'd take the calipers and check. Any references would be most welcome.
H
Hoeksel
Guest
I checked my reference and I see now it is officially a 7,7 cm calibre but indeed the case measures 8 cm. I have no case to measure this, I only have the 8,8 cm Flak WW1 case.
ooops, I wanted to correct the meaning of "FN" and made a typo myself, correct is "Fritz Neumeyer" as AZ23-28 wrote at beginning of this thread. "Friedrich Niemeyer" as an ammunition factory is a fantasy name which has never existed, all the usual lists are wrong because the mistake was copied from one to another list...
If you put a 77 mm shell into a 8 cm K-Flak case it will smoothly fall inside. The 8 cm shells have the same construction as the 8,8 cm shells including two driving bands and the 8 cm shells are the rarest of the Flak shells. The gun itself was the first real and powerful antiaircraft gun introduced into service in 1916. But some months later production stopped and was replaced by the same construction but larger caliber 8,8 cm K-Flak as the shells were more powerful. The main design of these AA-guns was the basis for most following AA-guns (not only in germany)
the shell 8 cm Gr. L/3,8:
(source "Schmidt-Tapken - Deutsche Artillerie und Minenwerfer Munition 1914-1918")
If you put a 77 mm shell into a 8 cm K-Flak case it will smoothly fall inside. The 8 cm shells have the same construction as the 8,8 cm shells including two driving bands and the 8 cm shells are the rarest of the Flak shells. The gun itself was the first real and powerful antiaircraft gun introduced into service in 1916. But some months later production stopped and was replaced by the same construction but larger caliber 8,8 cm K-Flak as the shells were more powerful. The main design of these AA-guns was the basis for most following AA-guns (not only in germany)
the shell 8 cm Gr. L/3,8:
(source "Schmidt-Tapken - Deutsche Artillerie und Minenwerfer Munition 1914-1918")
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Hello Tony,
there were many different 7,7 cm anti aircraft guns. Special produced barrels, barrels of the F.K. C/96 n/A , the F.K. 16 and widened to 7,7 cm russian 7,62 cm barrels were mounted on trucks, with socket mounting or normal field guns on improvised mountings. Some normal service shells like the Feldschrapnell 96, Kanonengranante 15 and Feldkanonengeschoss 11 were used with the normal double action fuzes where the percussion mechanism was deactivated (or removed). But later in the war also special Flak-shells like the 7,7 cm Brandschrapnells or Brandgranaten were introduced. Yes, the 8,8 cm Flak is very different from the 7,7 cm Guns as all 7,7 cm aa-guns were more or less improvisations (there were no special flak barrels in 7,7 cm with different ballistics than the Fieldguns). The 8,8 cm K-Flak instead was developed as 100% aa-gun and therefore has a lot more power (compare the length of the cases and the amount of propellant which fits inside ;-) ) All in all the variety of german anti aircraft guns in WW1 was nearly as large as all the normal field and siege artillery together...
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Tony without Kaiser
Member
Alpini thank you very much for the detailed reply. It all becomes slightly less fuzzy....
Many references state that the 1st 7,7cm Flak mounted on trucks were just FK96 n/A on pedestal mounts, however the cannon looks nothing like a FK96 n/A. It has a tube on top which I assume to be a recoil cylinder and there must be a recuperator somewhere. The ammunition, however, seems to be the standard fixed FK96?
As well. many refs state that the 8,8cm K-Flak was just a Marine M1913 8.8 cm/45 SK L/45 (as mounted on Kaiser & Knig class battleships etc). Although there are similarities, the 8,8cm K-Flak appears to be a different cannon, probably developed from the Marine version? I wonder if it had a vertical sliding breach block like on the Marine 8.8 cm/45 SK L/45?
Der_Feldgraue I hope this is not a hijacking of your thread. It seemed to be a good thread to get some clarification on Flak ammunition and cannons. Congratulations on your 6,0cm Flak cartridge casing. I have cartridge casings for a Marine 8.8 cm/45 SK L/45, a 8,0cm, Zug-Flak and a 8,8cm Flak. For some reason, the 8,0cm is my favourite. I just cannot find a good wartime photo of one to use. A rare bird it seems.
Many references state that the 1st 7,7cm Flak mounted on trucks were just FK96 n/A on pedestal mounts, however the cannon looks nothing like a FK96 n/A. It has a tube on top which I assume to be a recoil cylinder and there must be a recuperator somewhere. The ammunition, however, seems to be the standard fixed FK96?
As well. many refs state that the 8,8cm K-Flak was just a Marine M1913 8.8 cm/45 SK L/45 (as mounted on Kaiser & Knig class battleships etc). Although there are similarities, the 8,8cm K-Flak appears to be a different cannon, probably developed from the Marine version? I wonder if it had a vertical sliding breach block like on the Marine 8.8 cm/45 SK L/45?
Der_Feldgraue I hope this is not a hijacking of your thread. It seemed to be a good thread to get some clarification on Flak ammunition and cannons. Congratulations on your 6,0cm Flak cartridge casing. I have cartridge casings for a Marine 8.8 cm/45 SK L/45, a 8,0cm, Zug-Flak and a 8,8cm Flak. For some reason, the 8,0cm is my favourite. I just cannot find a good wartime photo of one to use. A rare bird it seems.
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charley777
Well-Known Member
Thanks , Alpini , for the clarification about the manufacturer . It's funny how mistakes are perpetuated... When i get home i'll measure the mouth of the case. Strange that it is "officially" 77mm though actually 80mm. If i had a 77mm projectile i'd use your test (-: