Help ID unknown 60mm mortar launcher part 2

[weberoed]

See first posting on this unknown moratr system (same title as this thread) I would have attached this to it but couldn't get the photos to attach.

Following is the latest info. Where I can see why they could call it command detonated, I don't understand why the fins on the output end, or why such a heavy spring. Of note is that both the mortar and fuze were made in 1945 not that is anything great I've seen WWII and Korean era ordnance in use in Vietnam and then a few years after that.


PRETECHREP (U)
A. (U) Unknown U.S. 60mm Mortar Weapon System
B. (U) 231430R JAN12
C. (U) 17S PU 67292 87949
D. (U) 18[SUP]th[/SUP] Ord Co (EOD) Team 3-3
E. (U) U.S. manufactured
F. (U) Constructed of a heavy bodied aluminum base, A light skinned aluminum outer sleeve, a machined aluminum barrel with a fused U.S. 60mm mortar within. Three numerical digits “132” stamped into the item. Once on the outer sleeve near the base to outer sleeve junction and once on the lip of the barrel.
G. (U) Diameter of the base: 94mm
Diameter of the outer sleeve: 88mm
Diameter of the fins overall: 144mm
Length overall: 440mm
Length of base: 130mm
Length of outer sleeve: 310mm
H. (U) 231600R JAN12
I. (U) Range 47 Fort Bragg N.C.

COMTECHREP - Type B (EOD Report)​

Section I. ADMINISTRATIVE INFORMATION

1. (U) 18[SUP]TH[/SUP] Ord Co (EOD)
2. (U) Team 3-3
3. (U) 17S PU 67292 87949
4. (U) EOD UXO response call to Range 74 Fort Bragg
5. (U) 1 Each

Section II. Descriptive Information

1. (U) IDENTIFICATION: See attached photos, X-ray and line drawing
a. Designation:
Weapon system: Unknown
Projectile: M49A2 LOT - M.M.C. - 466 - 1945 (D-2-5-97)
Fuze: M52A1B1 LOT - WC - 44- 185 - 5 - 45 (D-2-3-22)
b. Country of Origin: U.S.
c. Type:
Weapon system: Unknown
Projectile: HE
Fuze: PD
d. Paintings and Markings
Paintings:
Base: unpainted
Outer sleeve: Red
Barrel: unpainted
Markings:
Stamped: Lip of barrel, three numbers (132)
Stamped: Outer sleeve near the base, three numbers (132)
Cast: Alphanumerical characters on base
e. Features:
Fins: 4 each 90 degrees out from each other

2. (U) DESCRIPTION:
a. Material:
1) Base: Aluminum
2) Barrel: Aluminum
3) Outer Sleeve and Fins: Aluminum
4) Screws: Brass
5) Firing pin and firing pin plate: Steel
6) Spring: Steel
b. Weight: Unknown
c. Dimensional Information:
1) Diameters:
a. Base: 94mm
b. Outer sleeve: 88mm
c. Fins: 144mm
2) Length:
a. Total: 444mm.

3. (U) HAZARDOUS COMPONENTS:
a. Main Charge: 153 Grams (5.4 oz.) of flake TNT

4. (U) FUNCUTIONING: Unknown

5. (U) APPEARANCE:
a. Unfired Condition: Consider the item unfired if the mortar is inside the barrel and safety wire is in place.
b. Fired Condition: Consider the item fired if mortar is outside of the barrel.
c. Or if safety wire is not in place and a misfire is suspected.

Section III. EOD PROCEDURES (EOD USE ONLY)

6. (U) RENDER SAFE FOR SUSPECTED MISFIRE:
a. PROPOSED: Wait thirty 30 minutes for non-electric misfire
b. Proceed to render safe for the unfired condition

7. (U) RENDER SAFE FOR THE UNFIRED CONDITION:
a. PROPOSED: Transport in horizontal attitude
b. Proceed to Disposal.

8.(U) RENDER SAFE FOR THE FIRED CONDITION:
a. PROPOSED: None Required
b. Proceed to Disposal.

9. (U) DISPOSAL PROCEDURE:
a. Place not less than 1.25 pounds of C-4 47mm from the end of the barrel and detonated

NOTES: I believe that this weapon system was designed to be functioned by “command detonation” via the channel in the base. Used possibly as an off route munition. It is likely that components of firing system may not all be present.

 

[weberoed]

OK when I first posted the thread it was black lettering on white back ground - I'll report it again As I tried to say I can understand the command firing, but then why the find on the output end and why such a large spring in the base?



PRETECHREP (U)
A. (U) Unknown U.S. 60mm Mortar Weapon System
B. (U) 231430R JAN12
C. (U) 17S PU 67292 87949
D. (U) 18[SUP]th[/SUP] Ord Co (EOD) Team 3-3
E. (U) U.S. manufactured
F. (U) Constructed of a heavy bodied aluminum base, A light skinned aluminum outer sleeve, a machined aluminum barrel with a fused U.S. 60mm mortar within. Three numerical digits “132” stamped into the item. Once on the outer sleeve near the base to outer sleeve junction and once on the lip of the barrel.
G. (U) Diameter of the base: 94mm
Diameter of the outer sleeve: 88mm
Diameter of the fins overall: 144mm
Length overall: 440mm
Length of base: 130mm
Length of outer sleeve: 310mm
H. (U) 231600R JAN12
I. (U) Range 47 Fort Bragg N.C.

COMTECHREP - Type B (EOD Report)​

​

Section I. ADMINISTRATIVE INFORMATION

1. (U) 18[SUP]TH[/SUP] Ord Co (EOD)
2. (U) Team 3-3
3. (U) 17S PU 67292 87949
4. (U) EOD UXO response call to Range 74 Fort Bragg
5. (U) 1 Each

Section II. Descriptive Information

1. (U) IDENTIFICATION: See attached photos, X-ray and line drawing
a. Designation:
Weapon system: Unknown
Projectile: M49A2 LOT - M.M.C. - 466 - 1945 (D-2-5-97)
Fuze: M52A1B1 LOT - WC - 44- 185 - 5 - 45 (D-2-3-22)
b. Country of Origin: U.S.
c. Type:
Weapon system: Unknown
Projectile: HE
Fuze: PD
d. Paintings and Markings
Paintings:
Base: unpainted
Outer sleeve: Red
Barrel: unpainted
Markings:
Stamped: Lip of barrel, three numbers (132)
Stamped: Outer sleeve near the base, three numbers (132)
Cast: Alphanumerical characters on base
e. Features:
Fins: 4 each 90 degrees out from each other

2. (U) DESCRIPTION:
a. Material:
1) Base: Aluminum
2) Barrel: Aluminum
3) Outer Sleeve and Fins: Aluminum
4) Screws: Brass
5) Firing pin and firing pin plate: Steel
6) Spring: Steel
b. Weight: Unknown
c. Dimensional Information:
1) Diameters:
a. Base: 94mm
b. Outer sleeve: 88mm
c. Fins: 144mm
2) Length:
a. Total: 444mm.

3. (U) HAZARDOUS COMPONENTS:
a. Main Charge: 153 Grams (5.4 oz.) of flake TNT

4. (U) FUNCUTIONING: Unknown

5. (U) APPEARANCE:
a. Unfired Condition: Consider the item unfired if the mortar is inside the barrel and safety wire is in place.
b. Fired Condition: Consider the item fired if mortar is outside of the barrel.
c. Or if safety wire is not in place and a misfire is suspected.

Section III. EOD PROCEDURES (EOD USE ONLY)

6. (U) RENDER SAFE FOR SUSPECTED MISFIRE:
a. PROPOSED: Wait thirty 30 minutes for non-electric misfire
b. Proceed to render safe for the unfired condition

7. (U) RENDER SAFE FOR THE UNFIRED CONDITION:
a. PROPOSED: Transport in horizontal attitude
b. Proceed to Disposal.

8.(U) RENDER SAFE FOR THE FIRED CONDITION:
a. PROPOSED: None Required
b. Proceed to Disposal.

9. (U) DISPOSAL PROCEDURE:
a. Place not less than 1.25 pounds of C-4 47mm from the end of the barrel and detonated

NOTES: I believe that this weapon system was designed to be functioned by “command detonation” via the channel in the base. Used possibly as an off route munition. It is likely that components of firing system may not all be present.

 

[weberoed]

Here is the latest drawing of this item, looking more and more like an aerial delievered weapon. But for what and why is still the questions

 

[EOD]

Thank you webereod! Great info as usual.

 

[V40]

Mike & others,

Could it of been an aerial delivery system whereby the mortar(?) round gets launched out of the tube when the nose of the delivery system impacts the ground? With the large spring involved in the base of the round it might just give the round enough height and distance to go off within a few meters of initial point of impact of the entire system? With the fins sticking outward this would at least gaurentee an almost vertical position to fire the round. Kind of like a poor mans submunition? Question is at least for me is what happens to the casing after it fired off the mortar round? There seems to me to be some kind of "working" position at the base of the nose cone inside according to the x-ray photos, photos, and your last image. I am not sure if the next paragraph could be related to it or not? Thus you can make the mortar explode some meters away from that POI and not have the round sink in the ground before exploding. This would give the round much better fragmentation above ground. Also, is there not a pin or something that has to break on the round by dropping it down the tube and with the abrupt accelleration of the round out? Dropping the entire mortar system albeit without sights, gears and gadjets, and nothing else but a short barrel and some minor workings to get it all set up to do its job. Pretty neat in my book. Would like to know if I am on the right track so-to-speak by you engineers out there

I have seen pictures of helicopters (All were UH-1s) in Vietnam that had what appeard to be a metal box attached outside near the doorgunners position. It was vertical (perpendicular to the long axis of the helicopter itself) and the top of this box was just above where the doorgunners head would be if he were crouching in his seat. The bottom portion was opened up. Supposedly, the doorgunner and the F/E were to take up a case or more of 60mm mortar ammunition, make them live and drop them down the box leaving the helicopter like bombs from a WWII Bomber. Other then the picture and caption I have not been sucessful in finding out if for one it worked well enough to do it again, or it may have been the pilots long sought dream of becoming a WWII bomber pilot? However it happened I would bet that the Air Force was mad as you H_ll! Now could the two be related in some way maybe? I would also think that it wouldn't be very hard to tell which one is the more advanced system?:tinysmile_eyebrow_t

 

[weberoed]

found plenty about the air delievery of mortars 81mm and 4.2", plus some 105mm projo. But nothing smaller. Seemed to be a good idea and is talked about in a number of lessons learned or command histories for 1st Cav, 101 airborne and a couple other aviation units. However it did not seem to last long, I can still see a need for it today. Everything tells me this was an air dropped item (something I didn't agree to earlier), but the functioning and effect of the round going off is what doesn't make sense. If it were to go off upon impact how can you determine angle, diretion and distance the mortar round would go? the age of the mortar round may but this in the eraly 50'stime frame, but who knows