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Hey Dano... Lookie what I got! NVA rig.
- Thread starter Trenchwarfare
- Start date
V40
Well-Known Member
I am skeptical about the knife. It looks as though it has a "Plastic" handle on it. Most NVA/VC/Pathet Lao used bamboo for handles in the 1960's. Now the knife also looks like a tool that might have been sent south from China or made from old stock bayonets still up north.
Can I see the ID markings on it and especially the belt buckel?
Can I see the ID markings on it and especially the belt buckel?
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dano1917
RIP
Hey Trenchy, just got off the "workbench" he he and noticed the post. If those grenades are repros they are good (with the wax line and all). Repro or not I say "big score", but honestly with my limited knowledge I would be more inclined to say those grenades are "NOS" moreso than repros. Right now my major want is a MIN mine! Nonentheless great find....Dano
V40
Well-Known Member
Also forgot. The canteen and anything inside the belt as far as markings go. If it is one of our own canteens that is shaped like one and all metal, it is possibly a real deal. The only thing that can change that is a picture of the top of the canteen.
You have to remember guys in what you are looking for and have in your posession right now can easily be faked or made in Vietnam right now. They all know that allot of us here in the states collects items from the War. So they produce and sale. Also, they aren't lying when they put on the item, "Made in Vietnam" because it was. The Vietnam War collections can sometime be more harder to collect than everyone may think.
Whenever we opened trade agreements with SEA. Can't remember when this was?
Anyhow, since I have been collecting Vietnam War Items for over 30+ years now, it is getting harder and harder to distinguish between modern day Vietnam, China or the former Soviet Union than anything else concerning the War. For example back in the days, you could go in a gunshow way back then and see that there were more SKS's that were actual "Bring-Backs" from Vietnam and they all had papers OK-ing that that person of military background was signed off by an Officer (Unknown rank)stating that he could have one in his posession and allowing him to bring it back home. You had all kinds of SKS's come back. Allot of the time those papers were called "Captured Papers". Any clothing you wanted to a certain extent was OK as long as it was certified deloused.
It is just harder to tell what you are getting now these days. Another example would be the white rope around the grenades, which look great by the way, is a somewhat like brand new cord.
There are a few of us here that collect items from the Vietnam War. You can at least come to me with any questions about this stuff.
Also,
one more thing. Back then the Vietnamese had a few helping hands from other countries, particular other Warsaw Pact nations back then. Allot of the arms given to the PAVN were from these nations along with Grenades, Rifle Grenades, Pistols, people, sub-machine guns, Tanks, etc., etc.
Now not very many people know about this however, and is placed here as a FYI Type of information:
Soviet Advisors were pilots of helicopters and cargo airplanes that were found by SOG teams especially in Laos. The Teams sent there would sometimes hear rotor blades in northern Laos at night. Later they would lie motionless on a different mountain top when the sun came up. The pilots were immediately discovered to be Soviets as were their arplanes or helicopters. Often without markings of any other kind than a red star so tehy wouldn't be shot down by the NVA AAA.
Russian Advisors operating with the NVA/PAVN, both initials mean the same communistic state, North Vietnam. Anyways the
Russian Advisors would almost all the time a SOG Team found one, wore black fatigues. Sometimes they would wear green when they crossed borders into the South.
Cuban Advisors for some reason would go around and shoot prisoners or our wounded. SOG, from I have heardsome of them say, they would take them prisoners if at all possible, but they hated and hated the USA for some reason and fight. They wore a darker green fatigue.
Chinese Advisors wore most all of the time a OD colored fatigue with Mao hat. They and along with the Russians would wear thier nations developed equipment.
East Germany gave them doctors, nurses and sometimes drugs. They would wear what ever was comfortable to them.
Like I stated before, they each wore the same uniform when flying choppers and cargo airplanes in and out of a valley in northern Laos.
The only exception would be their Counter-Recon Teams (made up with advisors and North Vietnamese) who would either wear all black or all green, basically it was whatever the team(North Vietnamese) would wear into combat at that time period. Some say they were trained in Russia or were just trained in the North. They were good in the woods. They would sometimes speak to a Recon Team when they hit the ground in English and even naming the R/T's real full names and call signs. Talk about spooky. Usually they would ask the Yards to give up first the Americans in SOG in turn they would treat the Yards as friends or heroes. The answer that was to come was usally returned by a magazine of loaded tracers fired back and some M-79 rounds to boot. Now was the time to declare a "Prairie Fire" emergency asap.
This was happening more and more almost evertime an RT went out in Laos and Cambodia.
They all new their was a spy somewhere in SOG's organization somewhere. Unfortunatley SOG would loose whole Teams, never to found again. This problem was not solved until they realized that it was one of our own in the mid 90's I believe.
Can you guess who it was? Hint: Not only did the dad do it but his brother and his own Son participated in this spy program that sat us back at least 20 years in the intelligence world. They should been tried and found guity as they were by all standards mass murderer's. But it was not ot be.
I hope I am not a bore to all of you, I just thought that this would be only FYI to all of you with few exceptions. Send me a PM if you think this too long winded and not interesting at all to some of you?
You have to remember guys in what you are looking for and have in your posession right now can easily be faked or made in Vietnam right now. They all know that allot of us here in the states collects items from the War. So they produce and sale. Also, they aren't lying when they put on the item, "Made in Vietnam" because it was. The Vietnam War collections can sometime be more harder to collect than everyone may think.
Whenever we opened trade agreements with SEA. Can't remember when this was?
Anyhow, since I have been collecting Vietnam War Items for over 30+ years now, it is getting harder and harder to distinguish between modern day Vietnam, China or the former Soviet Union than anything else concerning the War. For example back in the days, you could go in a gunshow way back then and see that there were more SKS's that were actual "Bring-Backs" from Vietnam and they all had papers OK-ing that that person of military background was signed off by an Officer (Unknown rank)stating that he could have one in his posession and allowing him to bring it back home. You had all kinds of SKS's come back. Allot of the time those papers were called "Captured Papers". Any clothing you wanted to a certain extent was OK as long as it was certified deloused.
It is just harder to tell what you are getting now these days. Another example would be the white rope around the grenades, which look great by the way, is a somewhat like brand new cord.
There are a few of us here that collect items from the Vietnam War. You can at least come to me with any questions about this stuff.
Also,
one more thing. Back then the Vietnamese had a few helping hands from other countries, particular other Warsaw Pact nations back then. Allot of the arms given to the PAVN were from these nations along with Grenades, Rifle Grenades, Pistols, people, sub-machine guns, Tanks, etc., etc.
Now not very many people know about this however, and is placed here as a FYI Type of information:
Soviet Advisors were pilots of helicopters and cargo airplanes that were found by SOG teams especially in Laos. The Teams sent there would sometimes hear rotor blades in northern Laos at night. Later they would lie motionless on a different mountain top when the sun came up. The pilots were immediately discovered to be Soviets as were their arplanes or helicopters. Often without markings of any other kind than a red star so tehy wouldn't be shot down by the NVA AAA.
Russian Advisors operating with the NVA/PAVN, both initials mean the same communistic state, North Vietnam. Anyways the
Russian Advisors would almost all the time a SOG Team found one, wore black fatigues. Sometimes they would wear green when they crossed borders into the South.
Cuban Advisors for some reason would go around and shoot prisoners or our wounded. SOG, from I have heardsome of them say, they would take them prisoners if at all possible, but they hated and hated the USA for some reason and fight. They wore a darker green fatigue.
Chinese Advisors wore most all of the time a OD colored fatigue with Mao hat. They and along with the Russians would wear thier nations developed equipment.
East Germany gave them doctors, nurses and sometimes drugs. They would wear what ever was comfortable to them.
Like I stated before, they each wore the same uniform when flying choppers and cargo airplanes in and out of a valley in northern Laos.
The only exception would be their Counter-Recon Teams (made up with advisors and North Vietnamese) who would either wear all black or all green, basically it was whatever the team(North Vietnamese) would wear into combat at that time period. Some say they were trained in Russia or were just trained in the North. They were good in the woods. They would sometimes speak to a Recon Team when they hit the ground in English and even naming the R/T's real full names and call signs. Talk about spooky. Usually they would ask the Yards to give up first the Americans in SOG in turn they would treat the Yards as friends or heroes. The answer that was to come was usally returned by a magazine of loaded tracers fired back and some M-79 rounds to boot. Now was the time to declare a "Prairie Fire" emergency asap.
This was happening more and more almost evertime an RT went out in Laos and Cambodia.
They all new their was a spy somewhere in SOG's organization somewhere. Unfortunatley SOG would loose whole Teams, never to found again. This problem was not solved until they realized that it was one of our own in the mid 90's I believe.
Can you guess who it was? Hint: Not only did the dad do it but his brother and his own Son participated in this spy program that sat us back at least 20 years in the intelligence world. They should been tried and found guity as they were by all standards mass murderer's. But it was not ot be.
I hope I am not a bore to all of you, I just thought that this would be only FYI to all of you with few exceptions. Send me a PM if you think this too long winded and not interesting at all to some of you?
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Jolly Green
Well-Known Member
Always interested in drinking from your fountain of knowledge about the Southeast Asia Wargames Mark.
My favorite war period. My draft number was under 100 back in '73. Almost got me. Knew a lot of guys that went.
My favorite war period. My draft number was under 100 back in '73. Almost got me. Knew a lot of guys that went.
Trenchwarfare
Well-Known Member
V, knowledge, is never long winded. Even though, I graduated high school in 1975, have just now gained an interest in Vietnam weapons. Can't post additional photos right now, but will describe some details. Firstly, the entire rig, looks like a put-together. The knife handle is a cast ABS plastic type material. Pigskin scabbard. I have seen reference to these in the past. The grenade carrier, is very worn, and used. The back, is worn shiny smooth from carry. The white cord is a replacement, sewn on with blue thread, but looks like it's been there a while. The original was a web tape. No markings visible, on the back of the belt. Will take it out in the sunlight tomorrow. Sometimes you can see faded markings that way. Buckle is heavily oxidized, with verdegris growing where the belt touches. Also, the aluminum gromets are heavily oxidized. Canteen is dented, and banged up, with a turned wood plug. Similar to the WWII Japanese style. The cover/carrier, is the only part that looks pretty new, with little wear. No markings on either. Will try to post some pictures later. Thanks, M.P.
dano1917
RIP
The repro NVA/VC/Chicom sticks i've seen are crappy and downright obvious. I would say more of a novelty than anything. That is no to say there are not better ones out there. I am still of the opinion that Trenchwarfare's are the real deal. If not someone went through a lot of trouble to make 'em look good. The workmanship has a purposful crappiness (if you will) to it. I show the two I have, and if I did not know better I would say the one with the red can is a repro (but it is real)...Dano
Whew Green, you came close on the draft. My brother Chip missed the lottery by 3 numbers in '71, and I was born in '57, though worried the war was over when my time came (barely)
Whew Green, you came close on the draft. My brother Chip missed the lottery by 3 numbers in '71, and I was born in '57, though worried the war was over when my time came (barely)
Attachments
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V40
Well-Known Member
Sounds good to go and count it as a good piece of kit from that time period with few exceptions. Those grenades still look like the real deal and at the very least would be very excited to get a pair of those, INERT of course.
:tinysmile_twink_t2:
Like I stated before, watch yourself on what you are buying? It is definately a dog eat dog type of collectors which does not include me, who will unfortunately lie to your face about a piece of NVA kit. I am too easy going and am happy to share whatever knowledge I may have to other like minded individuals such as yourself and others like us.
:tinysmile_twink_t2:
Like I stated before, watch yourself on what you are buying? It is definately a dog eat dog type of collectors which does not include me, who will unfortunately lie to your face about a piece of NVA kit. I am too easy going and am happy to share whatever knowledge I may have to other like minded individuals such as yourself and others like us.
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Trenchwarfare
Well-Known Member
Well, one of the grenade heads was loose, so I turned it a bit. The nails turned with it. Then, I pulled it off. It's resin! The side nails are embedded in the resin, with another nail that holds the head to the wood handle. Must be a fairly recent repro. The guy I bought this rig from, said that the grenades were repros.
dano1917
RIP
Well Trenchy (class of '75 also) while you're on my 6 with this ordnance I think I got the munchies and will enjoy my vintage chocolate nut roll!!! Dano
Attachments
I thought 72 was the last year of the draft.
vinny :tinysmile_classes_t
dano1917
RIP
The last draft lottery in the U.S. for the Vietnam War was indeed 1973...Dano
Jolly Green
Well-Known Member
Vinny, they still issued us draft numbers in '73.
In my neighborhood back then it was real cool. EVERY guy going got a Stag Party and a nice homecoming.
The kid that worked in my Dad's store was a decorated Tunnel Rat out of Cu Chi. Another guy was a Marine at Hue and on the cover Life Magazine. Another was in a jeep that hit a mine and was searched by the VC and left for dead. Another guy did three tours as a chopper gunner. Dodging the draft was unthinkable.
I was delivering groceries on my Playboy bike.
My high school had draft protesters, racial tensions and transient kids from the local Air Force base (base rats) that was the home of SAC's 99th Bomb Wing with B52s and KC135s.
Ahhh the good ol' days.
If only I knew what I know now about collecting.
In my neighborhood back then it was real cool. EVERY guy going got a Stag Party and a nice homecoming.
The kid that worked in my Dad's store was a decorated Tunnel Rat out of Cu Chi. Another guy was a Marine at Hue and on the cover Life Magazine. Another was in a jeep that hit a mine and was searched by the VC and left for dead. Another guy did three tours as a chopper gunner. Dodging the draft was unthinkable.
I was delivering groceries on my Playboy bike.
My high school had draft protesters, racial tensions and transient kids from the local Air Force base (base rats) that was the home of SAC's 99th Bomb Wing with B52s and KC135s.
Ahhh the good ol' days.
If only I knew what I know now about collecting.
dano1917
RIP
Hi John, I have nothing but the utmost respect for the "tunnel rats", one of the most dangerous jobs to be had by a GI. I once used to drink with a tunnel rat at a bar in Belleville IL. He was there every day from open to close and would just drink himself stupid. When he was good and buzzed up he would tell stories and be the center of attention of the whole bar, and seldom had to pay for his own drinks...Dano
V40
Well-Known Member
This from my earlier post on the NVA rig with Trenchwarfare
Can you guess who it was? Hint: Not only did the dad do it but his brother and his own Son participated in this spy program that sat us back at least 20 years in the intelligence world. They should been tried and found guity as they were by all standards mass murderer's. But it was not ot be.
This is the spy who had allot of SOG Deaths.:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
Can you guess who it was? Hint: Not only did the dad do it but his brother and his own Son participated in this spy program that sat us back at least 20 years in the intelligence world. They should been tried and found guity as they were by all standards mass murderer's. But it was not ot be.
This is the spy who had allot of SOG Deaths.:tinysmile_fatgrin_t