Heydrich Grenade

[sgtlynn]

Here is a photo of one of the two grenades captured by the Germans from the two Czech Commandos that assasinated Reinhard Heydrich in Czechoslovakia. Currently in the Czech Museum in Prague. Took the photo a couple of weeks ago when I was there.

Talking with Bonnex and he informs me that these modified No. 73 grenades were in fact the ones that led to the development of the No. 82 Gammon Grenade. Very interesting......

 

[Bonnex]

Yes, Lt Gammon and P/O Hollander (then part of the Airborne) had the idea that it would be helpful to be able to improvise a grenade from the demolition explosives that were carried by soldiers. They were put in touch with SOE's Station 12 (See Des Turner's book on the subject) and after a number of visits and trials the Gammon Grenade emerged. Progress was relatively swift because Lt Col Wood at ES6 (Station 12) had already perfected the Grenade, 1 1/2lb (Heydrich Grenade) by lightening the No 73 grenade to produce a more practical hand thrown blast grenade with significantly more target effect than the No 69 bakelite grenade. Gammon tried a number of variations, including some with tails, but settled on what was basically an empty bag (to be filled in the field) fitted with a No 247 Fuze and CE burster which became the well known No 82 Gammon Grenade.

ES6 further developed the No 82 Grenade to create a pre-filled and slighty larger device which had a designation of No 82 Mk 2 but I do not believe it got to production.

Here is a photo of one of the two grenades captured by the Germans from the two Czech Commandos that assasinated Reinhard Heydrich in Czechoslovakia. Currently in the Czech Museum in Prague. Took the photo a couple of weeks ago when I was there.

Talking with Bonnex and he informs me that these modified No. 73 grenades were in fact the ones that led to the development of the No. 82 Gammon Grenade. Very interesting......

 

[paul the grenade]

I always thought it was called a Gammon because its shape resembled a piece of wrapped Gammon!
You learn something new every day.:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
Cheers for the info Norman.
Paul.

 

[spotter]

I thought the same as paul that Gammon was just a nickname due to its design,,excellent info thank you
And thank you sgtlynn for taking time to photograph the improvised ?? grenade and share it with us

 

[Demetrius]

Just looking up on this grenade after watching "Anthropoid". Great movie, and as always the last word here for great information.

 

[Millsman]

I'm struggling to see the rationale behind this grenade. If it weighed 1.5 pounds it was pretty much the same as a standard Mills 36 but with more blast and less effective shrapnel. Throwing distance would have been the same and if the car had been re-enforced with armour plating - less effective. Were they just counting on it being thrown into the open car?

Admitted the explosive charge is much higher but with reduced shrapnel. If the resistance used standard Mills grenades the operation could have been as just another resistance operation. The presence of special grenades showed it was SOE having a long arm. Were they sending a message with this grenade? i.e 'we can get you'.

John

 

[Bonnex]

It is an interesting question John. The likely explanation (imho) is that the grenades would be thrown in the open and an offensive grenade would offer the thrower rather more safety. The No 69 Grenade was presumably discounted as too feeble for the task and the standard No 73 too heavy. Wood's cut-down No 73, using a significant load of PE, must have given a high concussive effect and, given the Allways fuzing, may by chance have produced a 'poultice' effect on armour plate.

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,

You could watch "Anthropoid". This film pays tribute to the Czech Resistance.

 

[Millsman]

Hello,

You could watch "Anthropoid". This film pays tribute to the Czech Resistance.

I saw it at the cinema a while ago. A good film telling a strong story.

John

 

[Millsman]

It is an interesting question John. The likely explanation (imho) is that the grenades would be thrown in the open and an offensive grenade would offer the thrower rather more safety. The No 69 Grenade was presumably discounted as too feeble for the task and the standard No 73 too heavy. Wood's cut-down No 73, using a significant load of PE, must have given a high concussive effect and, given the Allways fuzing, may by chance have produced a 'poultice' effect on armour plate.

The damage to the car was I thought minimal for 1lb of HE. OK a piece of shrapnel with horsehair seating did for him but that almost counts as luck. I think the grenade was aimed to go into the car for blast effect. Regarding the safety of the thrower, because of the target it was basically a suicide mission so I'm not sure their safety came into it.

I would have though a better option was to add a couple of ounces more HE to a Mills 36. I don't know if anyone ever tried that or what the effect would be.

John

 

[Bonnex]

I would have though a better option was to add a couple of ounces more HE to a Mills 36. I don't know if anyone ever tried that or what the effect would be.

John

There was of course the Australian bunker busting No 36 attached to can of explosive. Presumably it did a good job for them.

 

[Snufkin]

The operation was not a suicide mission. Heydrich in his arrogance used the same route from where he was living to his office every day, using an open top car, and escorted only by his driver. Plan A was to ambush the car at a hair-pin bend where the car was forced to a crawl, shooting Heydrich at close range using a sub-machine gun, reported to be a Sten. Back-up Plan B was to use a hand thrown bomb if Plan A failed, and because the assailants would have been at close range a powerful "offensive" grenade rather than a No.36 was more sensible, as noted by Bonnex in post #7.

If the sub mg was a Sten - known for its tendency to jam - then it behaved according to reputation, because it did jam. The back-up grenade was then necessary and the rest is history.

The operation was well reconnoitered and thought through - apart from the use of a sub mg known for its unreliability. A few years ago I visited the assassination spot in Prague and although the road system has been widened and modified, there is still a sharp bend involved on the route that was used, and a car would have had to have come almost to a stop.

Attached are photos of one of the bombs retrieved by the Germans and now on display in the Prague military museum (same museum as mentioned by the OP).



Tom.

 

[Nabob]

There is a document recently found that says the Sten had a jammed round in the chamber.

I think that the grenade was to be thrown anyway. As Kubis had to prepare it for the throw.

Bob

 

[Millsman]

The operation was not a suicide mission.

Tom.

I think we will have to differ on that Tom. Yes, I'm sure there were no written orders that said it was a suicide mission but there were seemingly no plans to extract the assassins after the deed.

Also to Kill any of the top 5 or so Nazis in 41/42 would have been a suicide mission. Can you imagine that the Germans would shrug their shoulders, call it another resistance raid and just carry on? Village after village would have been destroyed until the assassins were found. The possibility of retaliation was well known and known to the assassins.

These men were incredibly brave, perhaps even braver for knowing they were unlikely to come home or see the end of the war.

It is miraculous that their back up grenade still exists. We can only give due honour to these men.

John

 

[Nabob]

We can only give due honour to these men.

John

We give them honor when we remeber what they did and why they did it.

Remember that they were home, fighting the fight they were not allowed to fight in 1938.
Out of 99 paratroopers that were droped from Britain into the Protectorate 49 survived the war. (Most of them were dropped in 1944)
From those dropped in 1941 and 1942 only 5 lived to see the end of the war. Two were later executed for collaboration with the nazis.
Link here:https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seznam_československých_parašutistů_v_boji_proti_nacismu

Yes they were heroes, but for me the heroes are the local people who have put their families in danger and many payed the price.
List of the executed is here: https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oběti_heydrichiády

As for the villages look up the movie LIDICE.


Bob

 

[Bonnex]

This may be of interest:

 

[Millsman]

Norman

Bearing in mind that this assassination was was well reconnoitered and thought through, as Tom says, they must have known the throwing distance would be 3-5 metres.

Surely there was no need to cut the grenade down for such a short throw? As Tom says the car was nearly stationary on the corner. Almost impossible to miss.

What would be crucial is the distance / time the tape needed to unwind to arm the grenade. Is that known?

John

 

[Bonnex]

Norman

Bearing in mind that this assassination was was well reconnoitered and thought through, as Tom says, they must have known the throwing distance would be 3-5 metres.

Surely there was no need to cut the grenade down for such a short throw? As Tom says the car was nearly stationary on the corner. Almost impossible to miss.

What would be crucial is the distance / time the tape needed to unwind to arm the grenade. Is that known?

John

Quite right, the 73 Grenade was built, to quote the manual, "for ambushes and road blocks" and was expected to be thrown 10 to 15 yards. However the manual also says that it is "absolutely essential that the thrower is behind cover", which brings us back to operator safety.

Colonel Woods certainly cut the No 73 grenade down and it is assumed that this was done specifically for OP ANTHROPOID but I have some notes that suggest the No 73 Type 6 grenade was developed/considered for OP MOON (the dropping of sabotage material into Germany for use by disaffected civilians - the GP Grenade grew out of this work). MOON had an number of planning configurations but in the event was not executed. So what? Well, it could mean that the cut down 73 was already on the inventory when ANTHROPOID was being planned and the team got what was available. I vaguely recollect that Wood refers to this when writing a letter to the civil servant tasked with undermining the claim of Gammon at the Royal Commission on Awards to Inventors. More research required.

I too would be interested to know the length of the safety tape in the fuze. Presumably the page I sent does not give it? [not reading German myself]

 

[Anders]

If the sub mg was a Sten - known for its tendency to jam - then it behaved according to reputation, because it did jam.

There is a document recently found that says the Sten had a jammed round in the chamber.

I have fired several STENguns and never had a failure. Some speculate that the jam occurred because the STEN wasn’t equipped with the shoulder stock nor a pistol grip. With nothing substantial to hold the bolt back, it broke through the thin cap holding the recoil spring in place resulting in the jam.

 

[Bonnex]

I have fired several STENguns and never had a failure. Some speculate that the jam occurred because the STEN wasn’t equipped with the shoulder stock nor a pistol grip. With nothing substantial to hold the bolt back, it broke through the thin cap holding the recoil spring in place resulting in the jam.

I had a stoppage with a Mk II S just out of its primary packing ( ie. Like brand new). It might have had something to do with a 0.380 Mk II revolver round that had been loaded into the mag (thank you HW .