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I have a question for you guys.....

V40

V40

Well-Known Member
The other day while looking for any "Ordnance" related item(s), I came across a picture of a Israeli mortar crew preparing to drop a 120mm down the tube. My question is this, On the tip of the mortar they had a long fuse extender to it so that it would go off above ground. Just like the US did in Vietnam. With a lot of bombs being dropped w/fuse extenders over Vietnam, I heard that it was OK on the BUFF'S but even better on slow movers and some jets. What do you think about the idea of having a fuse extender on each mortar round you shot?

One other item. This is probably the most stupid question ever to come out of me: Were mortar rounds seriously destructive in mud or snow when they went off during WWII? Or better yet even on brick roads, tops of houses, building, etc., etc. I mean their blast radius and how lethal they can be or are? I am only talking about the 60mm & the 81mm especially. I use to own a 4.2" mortar round W/P. I am to understand that that round is equivelant to a 105 howitzer with a large blast radius of somewhere in bewtween 10 meters to 40 meters?

Now, go ahead and laugh at this stupid question and when you all are done can you please answer my questions? I know very little about them and that SOG carried them on occasions across the fence.
 
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The 60 and 81 now use a multi function fuzes. You would have to post a picture of the fuze.
 
The Danes had Swedish fuze models for their mortars which had a distance rod which could be screwed in if needed, do not know if the Swedes had them on tehir own ones too.

Cetainly a mortar shell setting off in snow, mud or soft soil will reduce effect significantly. This was subject in many related statements and research (have non on hand wight now). There must be lengthy reports on experiments covering this as well as battle reports on effect etc.

Maybe some artillery men here can chime in with their own experience.
 
Hi V40,I have a photo I took of the marks left by a mortar exploding on a tarmac road in Lipik,Bosnia,the depth of the gouges in the tarmac show that even though the bomb did not penetrate the road,the splinters were propelled with enough force to gouge the tarmac and then continue on afterwards,it was even possible to see which direction the mortar was fired from by examining the grooves in the road,"like an off centre star",the houses in the vicinity of the exploding mortar were all peppered by fragments,the houses were about 10 metres from the impact point,the higher up the walls the less impact damage from the fragments,
Hope this is of use to you,
Regards,
Don,
 
I'm thinking a lot of confusion would go away, if we saw the photo of the 120mm projos with the long fuzes in question.
 
V40 said:
I am to understand that that round is equivelant to a 105 howitzer with a large blast radius of somewhere in bewtween 10 meters to 40 meters?
Click to expand...

Hello V40,
Yes, That's affirmative. Here is the fragmentation pattern:

dh.jpg
"A" shows the pattern of a M56 81-mm mortar HE round with PD fuze
"B" shows the pattern of a M1 105-mm howitzer HE round with PD fuze

Black zone: One piece of effective shrapnel for every 0,3 square meter
Grey zone: One piece of effective shrapnel for every 1,0 square meter

"Schurichtung" means direction of fire.

As you can see, the 81-mm mortar has a greater shrapnel coverage compared to a 105-mm howitzer, mostly due to the different angle of impact. The in-depth destructive power of the mortar is always bigger compared to the howitzer, because of the more circled shrapnel coverage. All in all, a 120-mm mortar HE-round has an equal terminal performance as a 155-mm howitzer HE-round.


Regards, Michael
 
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Ok, in order to prevent more confusion I am looking for the exact picture. Stand by.
 
I believe it was on the website that had all of the training films on it. Anybody remember what site that was?
 
From reading about that fuze, BA1980, It sounds like it might be. I looked on google for a picture myself, maybe not hard enough, but can anybody show me a picture of that fuse? Well it is a Friday and I have nothing better to do, so I will search out that site again. Got some sort of Flu so I will try as long as the body holds out.
 
I found the round thru Jane's "Infantry Weapons" 1985-1986. There is a picture of it on page 593. The picture has a caption below it stating the following: Possible fuze extension probe on a 120mm M-65 Soltam HE being loaded into a M65 mortar. The picture looks like it goes back to when Israel was fighting everybody else after becoming a Jewish state. I also have it on a/or the HE M58F, whatever that may be? It states that the PD fuze might be improved by an extension probe on the fuze, but such a probe is likely to be fragile, in transport, handling and loading and may cause instability in flight.
 
I am not use to doing a photo shoot on a book page, but here is what I have.


Mortar extension tube 001.jpgMortar extension tube 002.jpg
 
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