International shipments

[BOUGAINVILLE]

Hi all :smile:,
I supose that you are all aware that as from 1st January 2010 all members of the Universal Postal Union (that includes all Postal Services in all contries) will not carry any Inert Ordnance including replicas. :tinysmile_cry_t4: That includes USPS, Australia Post etc. I have recieved official comfirmmation from Australia Post concerning this. A quick check via Google also confirmed this situation with other Postal Services.

The question I want to ask all of you is - is there any international freight service/courier that will carry Inert Ordnance, disassembed of course. I have a inert Japanese projectile (with import permit) to move from the US to Australia.

I will be greatfull for any pointers in the right direction.

Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE

 

[gothica7]

Just a thought bud but if you have the correct import licence etc that you need for your country, wouldnt a Aus Government department know the answer to your question or are they just making it even more difficult for you?

Andy

 

[BOUGAINVILLE]

Hi there Andy,
They aren't that helpfull. They are only helpfull enough to inform us chaps of the changes in regulations etc (such as now all imported fuses must have a 1/4 section cut down the side etc).

The rest is up to us. Makes one feel that everyone is against us collectors. Especially as the only way to really build up a good collection is by sourcing internationally.

Cheers,
Robert

Just a thought bud but if you have the correct import licence etc that you need for your country, wouldnt a Aus Government department know the answer to your question or are they just making it even more difficult for you?

Andy

 

[gothica7]

Hi Rob,

i have heard its getting harder and harder to import into Oz without telling lies on the customs form and that even if you get a licence to import a grenade it has to be cut in half, totally mullering it in my view. Why i ask?? Even if you have a deactivated SMLE it has to have the safety catch marked in red. Cant chamber a round or fire it so whats the point? World is going to hell in a handbasket if you ask me.

andy

 

[BOUGAINVILLE]

Hi Andy,

It sure is getting harder and the end result is that it forces some to tell lies and disguise items or disassemble them so that it is not obvious what they are to the untrained eye of the postal employee when it is x-rayed. All very well if it has a shape that can be passed off as something else. With some items it gets a bit harder as the shape is universaly recognised.

All it does is just makes it harder for us collectors, pushes the prices up for what is available within Australia and forces some into shadey areas where they would prefer not to be.

Cheers,
Robert

Hi Rob,

i have heard its getting harder and harder to import into Oz without telling lies on the customs form and that even if you get a licence to import a grenade it has to be cut in half, totally mullering it in my view. Why i ask?? Even if you have a deactivated SMLE it has to have the safety catch marked in red. Cant chamber a round or fire it so whats the point? World is going to hell in a handbasket if you ask me.

andy

 

[Petesos]

It seems to me dudes that the world would rather forget our past history and lets just concern ourselves with the present day and its people like ourselves that keep the past and our evolution alive

 

[ozziammo]

Guys in Oz,

Write to Aust. Customs Service-Border Protection as per the letter you got :re imports. Tell them your grievances & the unintended consequences of their policy & ask that it be removed.

Also ask that consultation take place with relevant stakeholders on this issue (us as historians), mention the fact that these items cannot be made operable (who has the guns anyway?) Who has the explosive expertise to fill HE proj's? Who has the numbers of projectiles to carry out proofing capabilities of projectiles & fuses? This policy of sectioning is just blatant butchery-for what?

Who is going to be able to section an inert rusty 105mm German WWI proj. or a 16" battleship proj before importation?????

We need to make more noise about this or we will never progress our collections for the preservation of history.

Regards Ozzi

 

[pointblank0]

It seems to me dudes that the world would rather forget our past history and lets just concern ourselves with the present day and its people like ourselves that keep the past and our evolution alive

Very correct mate. I have thought this for years. The Governments brainwash people into thinking war history is bad. Schooling is changing and history is being missed out. Makes me wonder, not that I expect to be around, but in another 100 years, will anyone even be aware that WW1 happened? or the gulf war, falklands, soviet/arab war etc? Doubt it

 

[Eodtek]

To my understanding, the United States Postal Service has not banned the mailing of inert ordnance. There was a proposal in place but it does not appear to have been enacted. There is no information on their website and there does not appear to be any change to 39 CFR which covers the mail.

Can you provide a reference?

Oh and I stopped using the USPS along time ago and switched over to UPS for anything that needed to get there fast and safe.

 

[ozziammo]

Here is the letter we got in Australia about international post.

I believe it applies to the US as well, even if we could post out of US with another service there is only one postal service here, that is when the crap would apply!

Doesn't apply to internal post within a country---yet!!! Only international post.

Regards Ozzi.

 

[inertordnance]

To my understanding, the United States Postal Service has not banned the mailing of inert ordnance. There was a proposal in place but it does not appear to have been enacted. There is no information on their website and there does not appear to be any change to 39 CFR which covers the mail.

I believe that you are correct. The last I heard on this is that it was pointed out to the United States Postal Service that they did not have the authority to change 39 CFR to ban the mailing of inert munitions and the proposed changes were never implemented: http://gunowners.org/fs0804.pdf

I would be interested if someone can provide Current USPS Documentation that states that the mailing of Inert Munitions via USPS is currently banned.

 

[Eodtek]

Well they sure didn't make it easy to find. Hell, I have to read and intrepret the law all the time and I still couldn't find anything...until Ozzi posted that letter. That opened up doors for searching.

Ok, the keys here are:

1. The UPU is a United Nations entity (that means red tape).
2. All but 4 countries are a part of the UPU (yes, pretty much every one of us on this forum fall under it).
3. The UPU is here to help (ok, I made that part up).

Now for the clear wording. I'll start with an easy one, the treaty between the US and Canada:

Postal convention between the United States of America and Canada
Article 15

Undeliverable items

Unless otherwise agreed by the administrations, items which are undeliverable, other than letters and postcards, shall be dealt with in accordance with the internal postal laws and regulations of the country of destination.

So, if your country does not allow it to be sent through the mail (even though another country does), the item can't be sent through the postal system.

Now for the US. In 2008 there was a proposed rule that would ban the shipment of inert or replica ordnance through the mail. That appears to have died in its original form but was resurrected with one very important wording change.

Posted to the Federal Register: http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-10-22-E9-25363

CFR Citation: 39 CFR Part 20
NOTICE: RULES

DOCID: fr22oc09-10

DOCUMENT ACTION: Final rule.

DATES: Effective Date: January 4, 2010.

Consistent with Proposals 20.15.2 and 20.15.6adopted by the 24th Congress of the Universal Postal Union (UPU) in Geneva Switzerland on July 23August 12, 2008,that amend Article 15 of the UPU Convention, we are revising Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, International Mail Manual (IMM[supreg]) to make replica and inert explosive devices and counterfeit and pirated items nonmailable.
Replica and Inert Explosive Devices

Consistent with Proposal 20.15.2, this prohibition is intended to apply to devices that were originally designed for military or combat use (including training) and is also extended to replicas of such items. Specific items include replica and inert explosive devices and military ordnance, such as grenades, ammunition, shells and the like.

This prohibition does not extend to items such as children's toys or articles that do not represent such items in a realistic manner. Counterfeit or Pirated Articles

Consistent with UPU Proposal 20.15.6, this prohibition is intended to reduce the circulation of counterfeit and pirated articles between UPU members. The prohibition also illustrates that the UPU's members actively support the World Customs Organization's current campaign to thwart production and circulation of counterfeited and pirated products, such as dangerous toys and electrical items, dangerous counterfeit medicines and counterfeit branded goods, which do economic harm to domestic and international companies.
List of Subjects in 39 CFR Part 20

Foreign relations, International postal services. Accordingly, 39 CFR part 20 is amended as follows:
PART 20[AMENDED]
1. The authority citation for 39 CFR part 20 is revised to read as follows:
Authority: 5 U.S.C. 552(a); 13 U.S.C. 301307; 39 U.S.C. 101, 401, 403, 404, 407, 408, 414, 416, 30013011, 32013219, 34033406, 3621, 3622, 3626, 3632, 3633, and 5001.
2. Revise the following sections of Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, International Mail Manual (IMM) as follows: Mailing Standards of the United States Postal Service, International Mail Manual (IMM)
1 International Mail Services
* * * * *
130 Mailability International Mail Services
* * * * *
[Revise 136 in its entirety as follows:]
* * * * *
136 Nonmailable Goods

136.2 Replica and Inert Explosive Devices
The following types of replica or inert explosive devices are prohibited in outbound international mail:

1. Military ordnance, ammunition, and shells.

2. Grenades.
3. Similar devices that were originally designed for military or combat use (including training).
This prohibition does not extend to items such as children's toys or articles that do not represent such items in a realistic manner. 136.3 Counterfeit and Pirated Items
Any type of counterfeit or pirated article is prohibited in outbound international mail.

So, you can still ship an inert item inside the US to another US destination and not violate this. You just can't ship from the US to any other country (and I'm guessing that every other UPU country will be posting the same restriction).

It does appear that you can still use UPS, FedEx, DHL and any of the other shippers as they are not restricted by this.

Of course, you still need to be mindful of the customs requirements between your shipping and receiving countries.

 

[ozziammo]

Thanks Eodtek,

This garbage ruling will deter 95% of Ozzi collectors from importing (just what the zelouts wanted).

Aust Post is the only internal postal delivery service, but we do have couriers!

Just more hurdles to jump!

Regards Ozzi.

 

[BOUGAINVILLE]

Hi all,
Have just had a reply from DHL and here is what they say about carrying inert ordnance:-:bawling:

"Even though the customer has confirmed that Ordnance will be inert and therefore not defined as Dangerous or Hazardous. DHL Express Global Policy has prohibited the movement these items which are usually disabled (without a firing mechanism or explosive components) as they have the same or similar appearance as real firearms, weapons, explosive devices and ammunition.

Therefore unfortunately we will not move these goods as they are prohibited for carriage in the DHL network as licenses and special handling are usually required for transportation."

I have as yet to contact other couriers and as I do I will past their responses for you all to see and have a good cry.:tinysmile_cry_t4:

Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE

 

[BOUGAINVILLE]

Hi folks,:banghead:
Things are still looking grim :cry:. Just had a reply from another freight service called Interparcel Pty. Ltd. and you guess it their answer was in the negative.:bawling:

Looks like the lid is just about on the cofin as far as legitamate international shipments go.

Come on you guys :dontknow:some of you out there must know of at least one international courier/freight service that will handle inert ordnance.

I'm awaiting replies from a few other companies but somehow I have a feeling that I shouldn't hold my breath.

Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE

 

[inertordnance]

Hi folks,:banghead:

Looks like the lid is just about on the cofin as far as legitamate international shipments go.

Come on you guys :dontknow:some of you out there must know of at least one international courier/freight service that will handle inert ordnance.

Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE

How about Fedex as a possibility for international shipments into Australia ? : http://fedex.com/au/

 

[BOUGAINVILLE]

How about Fedex as a possibility for international shipments into Australia ? : http://fedex.com/au/

I had contacted FedEx with this enquiry:

"Can you ship inert disassembled ordnance from the USA to Australia acompanied with an Australian Import Permit?"

Here was their response:

Dear Robert,

Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

If you are referring to any firearms/weaponry or their parts - We are unable to accept as this commodity is considered as one of the prohibited items via FedEx.

Should you require further/urgent assistance, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service hotline at 132610.

Yours sincerely,
Mary Von
FedEx Australia