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Japanese 88
- Thread starter SG500
- Start date
Could this be Chinese?
Hello there. In the last picture the two characters are (left to right) the number 4 and 6. The first mark on the primer I do not know, the second mark is probably the number 1 and the last digit is probably refering to the Month. I know that Chinese and Japanese number systems are exactly the same for the numbers 1 through 10. What suggests Chinese manufacture is that there are no Japanese Arsenal marks at all. Every Japanese shellcase I own has markings for Tokyo, or Nagoya, Kokura, Osaka and so on. I have some reference on the Japanese 88mm Ammo, from Japanese explosive ordnance TM 9-1985-5. It describes the case length of 567mm (22 3/8 inches) and a base diameter of 137mm (4 3/8 inches). The diagram of the case does show a double crimp. Curious. Are those measurements similar to your shell? Does anybody own some japanese shellcases without arsenal markings?
Link to page describing the Chinese number system: http://www.mandarintools.com/numbers.html
Japanese Arsenal marks link:
http://www.castle-thunder.com/series.htm
One possiblity, I see some grinding marks on the base of the shell. Could some markings have been erased by grinding? Could this be a Chinese Communist reworked captured Japanese shell? Just a thought....
Jim
JapaneseOrdnance(at)yahoo.com
Hello there. In the last picture the two characters are (left to right) the number 4 and 6. The first mark on the primer I do not know, the second mark is probably the number 1 and the last digit is probably refering to the Month. I know that Chinese and Japanese number systems are exactly the same for the numbers 1 through 10. What suggests Chinese manufacture is that there are no Japanese Arsenal marks at all. Every Japanese shellcase I own has markings for Tokyo, or Nagoya, Kokura, Osaka and so on. I have some reference on the Japanese 88mm Ammo, from Japanese explosive ordnance TM 9-1985-5. It describes the case length of 567mm (22 3/8 inches) and a base diameter of 137mm (4 3/8 inches). The diagram of the case does show a double crimp. Curious. Are those measurements similar to your shell? Does anybody own some japanese shellcases without arsenal markings?
Link to page describing the Chinese number system: http://www.mandarintools.com/numbers.html
Japanese Arsenal marks link:
http://www.castle-thunder.com/series.htm
One possiblity, I see some grinding marks on the base of the shell. Could some markings have been erased by grinding? Could this be a Chinese Communist reworked captured Japanese shell? Just a thought....
Jim
JapaneseOrdnance(at)yahoo.com
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More measurements.
Hi, thanks for the info.
Case length is 628mm
Head diameter is 111mm
Yes there are grind marks on the base of the case where some stamps have been ground off for some reason.
If its Chinese, any ideas what its for? The calibre is 88mm (I've just measured it to check).
Dave.
Hi, thanks for the info.
Case length is 628mm
Head diameter is 111mm
Yes there are grind marks on the base of the case where some stamps have been ground off for some reason.
If its Chinese, any ideas what its for? The calibre is 88mm (I've just measured it to check).
Dave.
reworked ammo
Dave, I am unfamiliar with Chinese artillery and Ammunition so I can't help you there. I will double check some of my other Japanese reference books to verify the case length of a 88mm shell. There is some inaccuracy in US Ordnance manuals about Japanese ammuntion. Wish I could be of more help. If I find out anything new I'll post it.
Jim
JapaneseOrdnance(at)yahoo.com
Japanese 88 AA info:Handbook of Japanese Explosive Ordnance OPNAV 30-3M
Dave, I am unfamiliar with Chinese artillery and Ammunition so I can't help you there. I will double check some of my other Japanese reference books to verify the case length of a 88mm shell. There is some inaccuracy in US Ordnance manuals about Japanese ammuntion. Wish I could be of more help. If I find out anything new I'll post it.
Jim
JapaneseOrdnance(at)yahoo.com
Japanese 88 AA info:Handbook of Japanese Explosive Ordnance OPNAV 30-3M
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Quatermass
Well-Known Member
I can't find any reference to an 88x628R case, any chance its 85x629R?
That would seem to match the gun used in the Norinco Type 63 amphibious light tank (Chinese), also possibly for the Russian D-44 divisional gun, M1944 AA gun, field gun etc.
That would seem to match the gun used in the Norinco Type 63 amphibious light tank (Chinese), also possibly for the Russian D-44 divisional gun, M1944 AA gun, field gun etc.
That's outstanding detective work thanks Quatermass, you may well be right.
The case length seems to match up.
I've measured the diameter of the mouth about 10 times in all directions and it appears to be about 86 to 88mm and the neck doesn't look belled but then 3mm isn't much to worry about.
My gut feeling is you're right. Thanks.
So back to the original question - has anyone any details on it?
Dave.
BOUGAINVILLE
Well-Known Member
Japanese 88mm - case details
Hi all :tinysmile_grin_t:
Here is a wee bit of data on the case, hopefully it is of help. The 88mm was used by the IJA so the headstamps should conform if it is of that origin. This data below is British in origin from the Kirkee documents.
The case is of brass, 22 1/2 ins. in length. It is slightly necked at the month end and is attached to the shell by indenting into two cannelures in the shell: the mouth is also coned into the groove below the lower driving band. The primmer hole in the base is similar to that in the brass case for 75 mm. Type 88 Field/A.A. gun having a diameter of 27 mm. (1.07 ins.).
Length 22 1/2 ins.
Diameter over rim 4.42 ins.
Diameter under rim 4.82 ms.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE :tinysmile_grin_t:
Hi all :tinysmile_grin_t:
Here is a wee bit of data on the case, hopefully it is of help. The 88mm was used by the IJA so the headstamps should conform if it is of that origin. This data below is British in origin from the Kirkee documents.
The case is of brass, 22 1/2 ins. in length. It is slightly necked at the month end and is attached to the shell by indenting into two cannelures in the shell: the mouth is also coned into the groove below the lower driving band. The primmer hole in the base is similar to that in the brass case for 75 mm. Type 88 Field/A.A. gun having a diameter of 27 mm. (1.07 ins.).
Length 22 1/2 ins.
Diameter over rim 4.42 ins.
Diameter under rim 4.82 ms.
Cheers,
BOUGAINVILLE :tinysmile_grin_t:
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