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[staples57]

Well, the Christie Antiques Show (Dundas, Ontario Canada) was well worth the drive. I picked up a WW1 18 pdr. projectile (no fuze) and a fuze for, I believe, a WW2 25 pdr.
...unfortunately, my camera isn’t working (bad battery?), however, here are the markings.


The fuze...
Broad Arrow marked along with... “221B Mk4 NCR/C 5AD”
I believe that it’s for a 25 PDR, however, I don’t know anything else.
Any additional info would be appreciated.


The projectile is marked...

QF 18 PR
VII
F.S
D.A.
E .4 .16
​

QF 18 PR ...Quick Firing 18 pound
VII ...??Unknown??
F.S ...Forged Steel
D.A ...??Unknown??
E .4 .16 ...??April 1916??

I'm hoping that someone can help me fill in the unknown info and correct me where necessary.

Thanks!

 

[staples57]

Any information would be greatly appreciated... Thanks!

 

[spotter]

221 fuze is often found on 25lb base ejecting rounds e.g smoke,ill have a look round site as im sure theres some posts on this fuze,ill add links to this post when i find them,so keep checking back
regards allan

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/25-pdr-id-t4095.html?highlight=no221

 

[staples57]

Thanks Allan, very much appreciated.

Cheers,
Brad

221 fuze is often found on 25lb base ejecting rounds e.g smoke,ill have a look round site as im sure theres some posts on this fuze,ill add links to this post when i find them,so keep checking back
regards allan

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/25-pdr-id-t4095.html?highlight=no221

 

[dano1917]

18 pdr shell

Hey Staples57, would sure like to see a pic of that 18pdr when your camera is up. I freakin' love WW1 shells..Dano

 

[staples57]

A new battery and the camera is alive!

Here are the missing photos...

Hey Staples57, would sure like to see a pic of that 18pdr when your camera is up. I freakin' love WW1 shells..Dano

 

[doctor]

Hi
It's a 18 Pr shrapnel shell Mk VII
there are 12 Marks of shrapnel shell 18 Pr in service since WW1

 

[dano1917]

great pics

Thanks for sharing the pics Brad, I had no idea the side of that shell would be so well marked, nice stuff. Dano

 

[staples57]

Thanks DOCTOR.

Do you know if this is the manufacture date... "E .4 .16"
...the first character does appears to be the capital letter "E"

Thanks,
Brad

Hi
It's a 18 Pr shrapnel shell Mk VII
there are 12 Marks of shrapnel shell 18 Pr in service since WW1

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Nice items !

Lovely items Staples, is the 18 pounder shell distorted at the top from firing or is it the camera angle that makes it look like it has a bulge at the neck?
Really nice 221 Fuze !

 

[TimG]

I think,

NCR/C - National Cash Register Co., Canada

Regards

Tim. G.

 

[doctor]

4.16 is date of manufactured shell
generaly threre is stamping day month an year for example 8.5.15
The eye of the shell is generaly distorded by disc over the bursting tin when it passing through the eye after bursting

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Bursting charge.

Thanks Doctor, another example of the tremendous pressure caused by the ejection charge is this one, as you will see the driving band has split from the swelling of the shell base which did not exceed the materials "elastic limit" and returned to 1 mm from its original size leaving the driving band (soft copper) behind when it shrank back.

 

[staples57]

Hi Doctor,
That was my understanding also (Day, Month, Year).
Any idea what the "E" is in the date... "E . 4 . 1916"
It's definitely an "E" and not a number.

4.16 is date of manufactured shell
generaly threre is stamping day month an year for example 8.5.15
The eye of the shell is generaly distorded by disc over the bursting tin when it passing through the eye after bursting

Hi Tim,
Thanks for the translation. It's nice to be able to fill in the missing info.

I think,

NCR/C - National Cash Register Co., Canada

Regards

Tim. G.

Hi Dano,
Yeah it surprised me too. Both WW1 shells I have (British 13pr & 18pr) are well marked and dated. Not sure that the paint is correct, although it doesn't have that "repainted" or multiple coats of paint look.
What do you think about the date mark... "E . 4 . 1916"?
...any thought on what the "E" represent?

Thanks for sharing the pics Brad, I had no idea the side of that shell would be so well marked, nice stuff. Dano

Hi Chris,
Good eye! I hadn't noticed until you mentioned it. Yes, there is a slight bulge on one side of the shell. It's quite noticeable if you put a straight edge against the shell. Cool! I like the bits I collect to have a little history to them. Relics and battle used pieces mean more to me than NOS (new old stock).

Lovely items Staples, is the 18 pounder shell distorted at the top from firing or is it the camera angle that makes it look like it has a bulge at the neck?
Really nice 221 Fuze !

Any ideas on the paint? Original finish or repainted at some time?
...there is a real "aged" look to the paint

Thanks to all,
Brad

 

[staples57]

Hi Chris,

Great looking shell, thanks for the photos.
The topic of early WW1 British artillery rounds being faulty has been well documented and greatly discussed amongst historians. Would it be safe to say that the shell in your photos would have been considered a "DUD"?

Cheers,
Brad

Thanks Doctor, another example of the tremendous pressure caused by the ejection charge is this one, as you will see the driving band has split from the swelling of the shell base which did not exceed the materials "elastic limit" and returned to 1 mm from its original size leaving the driving band (soft copper) behind when it shrank back.

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Explain DUD!

Sorry Brad but I am unsure what you mean by the term "Dud" as the shell was fine when it was put into the gun and fired but the Band split when the Ejection charge was initiated causing the overpressure that then swelled the shell body and split the Band.

This was not the first example of this split band that I have seen.

 

[staples57]

Hi Chris,
I may be using the term "DUD" incorrectly. By "dud" I meant that the shell failed to fully detonate / explode. If the shell is an HE or shrapnel, I would have expected that the shell would be badly fragmented (exploded) after being fired. Is it fair to say that if the over pressure only caused the shell to split, was the internal charge too light or the shell too strong?

I'm reminded of the famous Bugs Bunny cartoon where he's testing shells in a US munitions factory by hitting then on the fuze with an over-sized hammer. When the shell didn't explode, which was always the case, he wrote "DUD" on the shell and moved to the next shell to be "tested".

Cheers,
/Brad

Sorry Brad but I am unsure what you mean by the term "Dud" as the shell was fine when it was put into the gun and fired but the Band split when the Ejection charge was initiated causing the overpressure that then swelled the shell body and split the Band.

This was not the first example of this split band that I have seen.

 

[2pounder]

swelled shell

With a shrapnel shell like that shown the casing or body is not expected to break up but act like a short shotgun barrel and have the balls forced out the end, my guess is when the fuze triggered the expelling charge there was enough force to eject the balls so it wasn't a true dud. I would take the term dud to mean the shell whatever type failed to function.
2pr

 

[staples57]

Thanks for the explanation 2pr.
I didn't know that a shrapnel shell operated in that way, I always thought it exploded much like a grenade.

With a shrapnel shell like that shown the casing or body is not expected to break up but act like a short shotgun barrel and have the balls forced out the end, my guess is when the fuze triggered the expelling charge there was enough force to eject the balls so it wasn't a true dud. I would take the term dud to mean the shell whatever type failed to function.
2pr

 

[dano1917]

18pdr gun

Hi Brad, Stumbled across this picture of the 18pdr British WW1 canon. British 18-pounder Mark 1 calibre 3.3 inches, weight of shell 18 pounds, maximum range 7,000 yards, barrel length 28 calibres, elevation -5 degrees to +16 degrees, weight of gun and carriage 3,800 pounds. Dano