Looking for information on codes on Berndorf and Karlsruhe cases

[Hoeksel]

I am doing an investigation on these typical codes you find on Karlsruhe and Berndorf made cases, with the intention to publish the results in an article for the ECRA/NVBMB but I will also post on this forum. For now I am specifically looking for some gaps in my research. An example attached.

Often shell case head stamps have many numbers. However, the code being discussed here is easy to recognize.

• Shell case is dated between 1909 and 1918 (maybe a case with code made in 1908 exists, but have not seen it yet)
• Only the year of manufacture is stamped, not the month
• Shell case is manufactured by Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe or Berndorf
• Shell case does not have a German acceptance mark
• Code is never head stamped afterwards but always stamped in the original stamp
• Code is on the same radius and in the same font as the year of manufacture
• Code is always right from the year of manufacture
• Code and year of manufacture are always on the 6-o-clock position

Codes I have and I think I understand: 15, 21, 21 II, 31, 40, 42 II A, 73, 164, 178, 650, 654, 660, 670, 807 III A, 845, 858, 904, 913, 914, 914A and 915.

Looking for:

Other examples of Code 31, 42 II A, 650, 654, 807 III A, 858, 904
Code 44B (on a ~105-107x390-394R122-124 case)
Code 166A (on a 75x640R case)
Code 300 (on a 150-152x660R170 case)
Code 785 (unknown case dimensions)
Code 860 (on a 75x129R85 case))
Any code not yet mentioned.

Please share images of the head stamp and the case profile as for me all details (markings, necked or straight case, ...) are relevant.

 

[charley777]

Great work Hoeksel
I gave up asking about these numbers because no-one seemed to know.

 

[Hoeksel]

To get a step further I need more examples and case measurements. Unfortunately hard to get information, surely some of these cases must be in somebodies collection.

 

[fert]

Hello,
75x138 R88 i don't know if cutted off

regards

 

[fert]

again from the archive,
150x562 Turkish Berndorf made with 300 code

 

[Hoeksel]

I have 75x278R90 for code 858, Bulgarian used.

 

[Hoeksel]

Cool, Turkish navy case but most likely cut down.....you do not have the rim diameter?

 

[fert]

Unfortunely not...

 

[fert]

Hello
105x641 unfortunely no im diameter
Berndorf made with 166A code


regards

 

[fert]

Hello
105x120 with 784II code


regards

 

[Hoeksel]

Interesting. New code for me, but also the case is completely new to me!

 

[fert]

Hello,
Do you know the other one? Both 105 unknown for me
thank you

 

[fert]

75x275 660 code

argentina


chile


regards

 

[Hoeksel]

The other case unknown to me, I had 660 Argentina, Chile and Turkey in my list but I thought these are 75x278R90 (Krupp L/30 M1903 field gun).

 

[frijoles108]

Here is one, hope it helps (sorry if i misunderstood and this wasn't one you were looking for). I think i have another berndorf 75mm casing somewhere here from 1898 ill send a pic of too if you want it.
This casing measures 276.2 mm tall, 88.9mm at base, and 75mm at mouth. It is marked Patronenfabrik Karlsruhe 1912 21 II (some other markings you can see also on base, but I wrote out ones you may have difficulty reading).

 

[Hoeksel]

This one is well know, it is export for Belgium for the 7,5 cm Krupp L/30 field gun. Thanks for sharing.

 

[fert]

Hello,
is there any differences between 21 and 21 II code?
21 and 660 observed on 75x277 turkish cases

 

[Hoeksel]

Hello,
is there any differences between 21 and 21 II code?
21 and 660 observed on 75x277 turkish cases

Yes, I think so. This is part of my planned publication and hypothesis.

 

[Alpini]

I have seen pictures only but case #660 had a shoulder if I remember right and the #21 doesn't have a shoulder. Exact length of #660 would be good to know if 275 or 278...

 

[Hoeksel]

I have seen pictures only but case #660 had a shoulder if I remember right and the #21 doesn't have a shoulder. Exact length of #660 would be good to know if 275 or 278...

According measurements length is the same. Difference is indeed necked (660) vs straight case (21 and 21II).