Looking for pictures and head stamps of Skoda 7,5 cm PL vz37 ammo

[Hoeksel]

As the title mentions, I am looking for pictures of shell cases (dimensions and head stamps) of the 75x657R96 case for the Skoda vz37 AA gun.

I am mainly interested in how the neck is shaped, how wide the rim is and the head stamps from different countries.

I am trying to find more info on Dutch use and I need the shellcase shapes for comparison with found pictures.

Countries that used this gun that I am aware of:

- Chechoslowakia
- Netherlands
- Germany (M37(t)
- Finland
- Jugoslavia
- Italy (75/49 or 75/50)

 

[Tmine35]

In 1941 Finland purchased 20 of these guns with 56.000 rounds of ammo from Germany. I have never seen other than original shells + cases and neither have any ammo manual references of Finnish production - just overhauled and repainted original shells.

 

[Hoeksel]

Sort of what I expected, thanks for the Finnish part! Now let's see if somebodey can show the case and a head stamp.

 

[Hoeksel]

On a Dutch forum I have found a first example of a head stamp and the case itself. This round is Tsjechisch based on the typical little "random" numbers and letters, maybe German used, but not export.

From a Belgium BOCN member I have received stamp 2, also a clearly Chech used shell case.

 

[Tmine35]

Finnish ordnance manual from 1944 states the following dimensions for brass case ( I assume steel case is the same ):
-total length 658mm
-outside diameter at mouth 79,3mm
-rim diameter 96mm
-case diameter below rim 87,7mm
-rim thickness 5mm

Long ago I sold 2 Czech brass cases with original primers to an overseas collector. If he still has them I'm trying to get photos and post here.

A few years ago I sold from my collection a complete round with German steel case, and if I remember it correcty it went to a Dutch collector but unfortunately have no details any longer.

 

[Hoeksel]

Ofcourse I would be very interested in adding a shell case to my collection, if anybody has one for sale or trade!!!

 

[Hoeksel]

I now am also interested in the ammunition box dimensions for this ammo. I believe the standard box is for 3 rounds but maybe a 6-round box also exists.

 

[Tmine35]

Here 4 different shells described in Finnish ammo manual in 1944.
Ammunition box is for 3 rounds and it's dimensions 1020 x 360 x 145mm, weight 48 kilos.
I assume the box shown in attached picture is original because Finnish ammo boxes usually were made a different way.

 

[Hoeksel]

Very interesting information! Based on the only picture I have of a Dutch ammo box on the 7,5 cm TL No.2 gun (which should be a Skoda 7,5 cm PL vz37, I have attached the picture), and your infomation on the ammo box, I can say they match (in size, lock type and lock position, shape).

The Dutch ammo box also shows 3 rounds, and the length:width ratio ~ 2.75:1 which matches the Finnish ammo box for the 7,5 cm vz37.

In addition, the Dutch ammo box for the 7,5 cm TL No.1 (1920's Vickers AA gun) has clearly different ratio's: 790 mm x 480 mm.

 

[Tmine35]

Here data sheets on fuzes supplied from Germany together with 75mm Skoda rounds to Finland in 1941.

 

[Hoeksel]

Thanks! Today I will receive some information on the sale of these guns and ammo to The Netherlands. Apparently we bought 11.000 rounds of ammunition for 12 guns.

Now the challenge is to get the ammo drawings that the Dutch bought.

 

[Tmine35]

Here headstamp on the case I mentioned earlier. This case came from Finnish Army use and is one of those purchased from Germany 1941.

 

[Hoeksel]

And here a German used head stamp from a German forum.

 

[Hoeksel]

You can clearly see the black fuze in the Dutch ammo box. I have some data on weight of the shells, I will look them up and see with what Finnish shell they match.

I also have gotten pictures (thanks to Greif) of the black fuze (BrZ MG-R) for the 7,5 cm and 8 cm vz37 Skoda.

I know now that the Dutch have received 10.000-11.000 rounds before the war started.

EDIT: The Dutch cartidge (I think complete, with case, propellant and shell) was 11,55 kg. My Finnish is a bit rusted ;-) (although I see some "kg" mentioned here and there). What shell would match that weight knowing the Dutch used the BrZ MG-R?

EDIT 2: A second source mentions a 6,5 kg HE shell. Knowing the fuze is 1 kg, this would leave 5,5 kg matching the Finnish manual for the shown shells.

 

[Tmine35]

Finnish manual says for all 3 HE-shells shown in my previous pictures;Weight with 0,64 kg charge 5,5 kg. Fuze weights; time delay fuze 1,0 kg and impact fuze 1,08 kg. Powder charge 1,85 kg. Empty case weight is not mentioned.

Please note that there are no Finnish HE-shells - all shown in the manual are original Czech/German made, one drawing only shows new Finnish paint and stencilled markings on an overhauled shell.

Thread on fuzes is W 47,9 x 1/10".

The AP-shell shown in manual is of Finnish original and very similar to one made for 75mm Bofors.

 

[fert]

ciao
any idea about the marking 75 AA?
anti aircraft? or the italians anti aereo.....???

about italy:
64 guns deliverd by germans from 1940 to 1943 togheter with firing central Skoda T7N.
antiaircraft ammunitions M37 with pyrotechnic time fuze, all the fired cases must be returned to germany to reloading.
AP ammunition with shells of italian design and base fuze M09 (the same as the 47/32) is not specified if the case are supplied by germans ( I think ) or produced in italy.

best regards

 

[Tmine35]

I have been wondering this marking 75 AA as well. In all German made steel cases found in Finland it is the same and not in line with standard German headstamp system.

 

[fert]

thanks for the reply Tmine35.
then 75 AA headstamp was observed only on Finnish cases?
correct me if I'm wrong, in finnish the word antiaircraft is translated "ilmatorjunta" is it right?

 

[Tmine35]

No Fert, AA has nothing to do with Finnish language. On the other hand, during WW2 we purchased from Germany a lot of different ammunition in various calibres and components for reloading, they all had only original and standard German markings - I have never even heard that something would have been marked specially for Finland. Also all our WW2 ammo manuals refer to original German markings.

 

[fert]

ah...ok
I'm sorry but because my bad english I understood that the cases used by finland were marked 75AA.
regards