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Mysterious 37mm / Russian ? German ?

Hi Kz11gr,
It looks like a WW1 German Sockleflak incendiary round,
Best regards Weasel.
 
Hi kz11gr,
Sorry i missed that as i looked at it on my phone and only got the first picture, if it is a Russian case it will be the first one i have seen. Maybe Gordon can help us out here, not sure that anyone would go to the trouble of making a case up to look Russian to make a piece of trench art.
Best regards Weasel.
 
No doubt that the case is typical Russian - I have several differently marked Russian ones in my collection. However the shell does not look Russian.
First the crimping groove in shell is much lower than crimping marks on case ( where they are on normal Russian place ).
Second the driving band is too narrow. Narrowest bands on Russian shells I have seen are 12,7mm ( " ), with grooves or without. Also Russian shells in most cases have some Cyrillic markings ( though I have one guaranteed Russian shell without any markings )
 
Hello all,

HB = Hotchkiss Brandt, France; Napolean III coin;...

The case should be french, but we often find shells and cases of different nationality (bad collectors) !



Yoda
 
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Russian Hotchkiss cases and shells of different calibers ( 37 - 47 - 57mm ) often have a HB stamp in addition to Russian markings. I'm not sure if they were made in France for Russia or made in Russia by license?
 
pictures :
 

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It's a German tracer for sure and a Russian casing for sure. Looks like some of the base of the case has had something removed ? It does look undercut like a 37x101 case, but that makes no sense. I presume case is 95mm in length. If it is a Russian 37x95 case and the base has been undercut to be like the 37x101 then somebody was messing around, there is no reason to do this and it might weaken the case too much as it wasn't designed for this shape. It looks undercut or is it just very dark and fools us.
 
Gspragge said:
I presume case is 95mm in length
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Documents and meassurment says 94,5 mm case lengt.

The case is not undercut, it's some dark coating which these cases have on their base (copper?). The same coatings are sometimes observed on other countries cases (for example british 13 Pr, 18 Pr, 25 Pr). Anyone knows what's the purpose of such a coating near the base?
 
Well it's simply a German tracer in a Russian case. Trench "artists" are not particular as to what belongs to what so it was simply mixed after ww1. The colouration might have something to do with the annealing process, not so much a coating per say.

I have seen a Puteaux case base added to the body of a 37x136 (BSC?) case, it looked at first like Puteaux actually produced some of these cases and would have been an extraordinary find in any condition, until it was observed that the base was soldered onto the rest of the casing - it was a total Cockup ! But it sure got me wound ~ even with the F'kng ink wells.
 
yes, heat treatment would be a good explanation for the color differences. Maybe they did it by heating the cases head down in a temparature controlled lead bath with the case bases outside the bath so that they could oxidize (especially the zinc in the brass alloy oxidizes, leafing copper color)
 
Gspragge said:
Well it's simply a German tracer in a Russian case. .
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Russian naval cases have this ?

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I have in my collection 5 Russian cases in original condition from different years. Just for statistics, they measure in length 94,0 - 94,4 - 94,6 - 94,7 - 95,0mm. I assume accepted deviation in length was rather big, especially thinking of different driving band measurements on shells.

Yes, 3 of my cases have similar crimping marks ( 4 pcs ), one has 4 pcs about double of that length and one has no crimping marks at all.
 
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My thoughts too, with Revolving Cannon there is little need to crimp except for secure transportation. With the Maxim a projectile head could be stuck in a tight belt and the case pulled off of it, so the crimping became important.
 
If I'm not totally wrong Russia did not use Maxim PomPoms. Thus this is no explanation to existing or non-existing crimping marks. I believe they started to crimp at some stage just for general reasons to attach the projectiles better.
 
According to Dolf Goldsmith, Russia got 6 Maxim pom poms around 1895. No info if they ordered more or whether they made any themselves.
 
Just looked through my copy of "Russian Artillery Encyclopedia" (can't read Cryllic or Russian) and there are photos of both 37mm and 40mm pom poms. There is even a drawing of the infamous Mclean gun. Still no info on numbers issued.
 
I only checked it from "Russian Cannon" by Chris Koll and there are mentioned just a few other guns of this caliber. Another source says that Obuhov made a small series of about 120 guns during WW2.
Mclean Poole cannons were purchased in 1916-17 together 218 pcs according to the same source.
 
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