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no36mkII mills question
- Thread starter Darrol
- Start date
I'm sure Norman has answered this one in the past.
According to the WO List of Changes the "Grenade, .303-inch rifle, practice, No.36, Mark II" was introduced on 2 January 1922. While no mention of the MkII is made in the documentation of 1917-18, it is probably safe to say first small scale production (or rather conversion - it's only a modified base plug and gas check after all) is likely to have been some time in the period 1919-21.
Tom.
According to the WO List of Changes the "Grenade, .303-inch rifle, practice, No.36, Mark II" was introduced on 2 January 1922. While no mention of the MkII is made in the documentation of 1917-18, it is probably safe to say first small scale production (or rather conversion - it's only a modified base plug and gas check after all) is likely to have been some time in the period 1919-21.
Tom.
Thanks bonnex.Im not sure what gsof is?.I got a practice no36 mills with undrilled filler plug with with this base plug . The striker has been dropped that often that the baseplug even though made of steel has a round dent and the striker itself is dull .theres white paint on the baseplug the same as the body .the grenade has standard 36mk1 shoulders but with a mk 2 baseplug.if the baseplug was added later it must have been together for a long time .so the other question is . . Was it common practice to use various mk plugs on drill grenades for throwing practice?.Cheers .Darrol.
Darrol,
CSOF is Chief Superintendent of Ordnance Factories so the contract was placed on Woolwich Arsenal.
From an army unit point of view it would have been quite common for the plugs, levers, etc to get interchanged after a days throwing practice. For rifle grenade practice a unit should only have used the base plate with the larger stud but i dare say they used whatever made the training easier.
Darrol, is there a maker's initial or monogram on the body? That might provide a good indication of the exact age of the body.
As Norman has commented, there was a contract dated 8/9/36. Specifically the contract (W/765/36) of the given date placed with Woolwich was for the repair of 500 No.36 MkII grenades. Interestingly the demand/requirement reference indicates that this batch of 500 were for South Africa - Demand No. Dds/12848, PSa/3232, SA.
Tom.
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Norman,
As you're aware, there were around a dozen contracts placed with Woolwich between 1936 and 1940 for "repair and conversion" of small numbers of No.36 MkII, including:
132 for Australia in May 1937;
228 for Canada in November 1938;
1,008 for Eire in May 1939;
200 for New Zealand in July 1939;
382 for the Air Ministry in May and August 1939.
Conversion is clearly replacement of the base plug, and as of the April 1936 entry in List of Changes, the drilling of five holes in the body. Perhaps repair meant new components (lever, spring, striker) where deemed necessary to replace rusted ones, and a fresh coat of white paint...
Tom.
As you're aware, there were around a dozen contracts placed with Woolwich between 1936 and 1940 for "repair and conversion" of small numbers of No.36 MkII, including:
132 for Australia in May 1937;
228 for Canada in November 1938;
1,008 for Eire in May 1939;
200 for New Zealand in July 1939;
382 for the Air Ministry in May and August 1939.
Conversion is clearly replacement of the base plug, and as of the April 1936 entry in List of Changes, the drilling of five holes in the body. Perhaps repair meant new components (lever, spring, striker) where deemed necessary to replace rusted ones, and a fresh coat of white paint...
Tom.
Tom,
Thanks. I can understand the conversion of existing stocks for overseas sales but I have difficulty with 'repair' for a small number of grenades for Australia, say. It doesn't make sense to ship a small number of grenades in need of repair from abroad so I presume the 'repair' is more likely a rework of UK stocks (perhaps stocks that have deteriorated in storage).
I should know how the RAOC sentenced practice/drill grenades returned to Ordnance depots after being damaged on training but I will have to look it up. It is unlikely that they would return anything to an OF that was beyond economical repair and, in any case, an Ammunition Depot would have repair/rework facilities itself sufficient to deal with most repairable grenades (not that drill grenades, being inert, were necessarily stored in Ammunition Depots).
Thanks. I can understand the conversion of existing stocks for overseas sales but I have difficulty with 'repair' for a small number of grenades for Australia, say. It doesn't make sense to ship a small number of grenades in need of repair from abroad so I presume the 'repair' is more likely a rework of UK stocks (perhaps stocks that have deteriorated in storage).
I should know how the RAOC sentenced practice/drill grenades returned to Ordnance depots after being damaged on training but I will have to look it up. It is unlikely that they would return anything to an OF that was beyond economical repair and, in any case, an Ammunition Depot would have repair/rework facilities itself sufficient to deal with most repairable grenades (not that drill grenades, being inert, were necessarily stored in Ammunition Depots).
Norman,
Thanks. The "repair" is definitely of UK stocks. Occasional side notes on the files say "Issued from store" or "Army grenades from store" so maybe they had been languishing (empty of course) in less than ideal conditions for nearly 20 years. If stored cocked then perhaps the springs were considered distorted, and levers, safety pins and tops of strikers were found to be rusted.
Tom.
Thanks. The "repair" is definitely of UK stocks. Occasional side notes on the files say "Issued from store" or "Army grenades from store" so maybe they had been languishing (empty of course) in less than ideal conditions for nearly 20 years. If stored cocked then perhaps the springs were considered distorted, and levers, safety pins and tops of strikers were found to be rusted.
Tom.
hi tom .theres a small marking right next to the front drilled hole. .i cant see any other markings .ive had a close look at the body and it has definatly been repainted twice as there are three layers .cheers Darrol.
.
Thanks, Darrol.
The mark looks a bit like the top half of a G, and there is possibly an F covered in white paint, so I attach a couple of images for comparison. The monogram on mine is FG (which I don't know) and the centre piece is South African - I think Norman can confirm that the arrow in a U is a SA inspection mark. The filler screw thread is also different to that of British No.36. The whole assembly appears to be of South African manufacture.
Does yours have a centre piece so marked?
The Demand on the contract was marked SA (for South Africa), and the contract was a repair of 500 (post #7). It is interesting that a South African made grenade should turn up - I think what you have there is a genuine hand stamped base plug as originally supplied with the contract, it went to South Africa, and has made it's way in to your hands on a later, genuine SA made body, having been swapped in training as mentioned earlier by Norman.
Tom.
The mark looks a bit like the top half of a G, and there is possibly an F covered in white paint, so I attach a couple of images for comparison. The monogram on mine is FG (which I don't know) and the centre piece is South African - I think Norman can confirm that the arrow in a U is a SA inspection mark. The filler screw thread is also different to that of British No.36. The whole assembly appears to be of South African manufacture.
Does yours have a centre piece so marked?
The Demand on the contract was marked SA (for South Africa), and the contract was a repair of 500 (post #7). It is interesting that a South African made grenade should turn up - I think what you have there is a genuine hand stamped base plug as originally supplied with the contract, it went to South Africa, and has made it's way in to your hands on a later, genuine SA made body, having been swapped in training as mentioned earlier by Norman.
Tom.
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OK, thanks Darrol. Nothing exotically South African afterall. What you've got, from your emailed photo and which I've attached herewith as the third image, is an IBR (International Boilers and Radiators Ltd) reject casting - see below.
IBR received three contracts (in August 1943, January 1944 and June 1944) totalling 140,000 No.36 MkII Drill grenades, the first contract "To be produced from rejected castings. Free issue:- steel base plugs, gas check plates."
Tom.
IBR received three contracts (in August 1943, January 1944 and June 1944) totalling 140,000 No.36 MkII Drill grenades, the first contract "To be produced from rejected castings. Free issue:- steel base plugs, gas check plates."
Tom.
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