No5 /No23 ? markings on mills

[ken68]

Hi all not 100% sure if this is a number 5 or 23 mills can anyone tell me the markings on front and back are. where its made ? cant find any for this WW1 grenade .
above the J looks like its been plugged at one point over another letter J? front has a define X ,and above that also some sort if filled plug hole,which i have seen on other WW1 mills.
any ideas what i have here thanks

ken

 

[millsbomber]

Hello Ken, can you do a picture of the center tube and the filler screw/hole,,,,, Dave

 

[ken68]

Hi this has no center peice and the filler hole is lead wont budge without damage , also the threads at base for base plug have been filed down and a little slot below the filler for money:tinysmile_angry_t: , yep old money box !!:tinysmile_angry_t: i dont have a center piece base plug or striker for this one just what you see , lever ,filler screw , pin,

hope this helps , still cant find any proper info on it .

cheers ken

 

[ken68]

Hi this has no center peice and the filler hole is lead wont budge without damage , also the threads at base for base plug have been filed down and a little slot below the filler for money:tinysmile_angry_t: , yep old money box !!:tinysmile_angry_t: i dont have a center piece base plug or striker for this one just what you see , lever ,filler screw , pin,

hope this helps , still cant find any proper info on it .

cheers ken

the striker you see in the No5/23 i made today for display untill i pick one up :tinysmile_grin_t:

 

[millsbomber]

Ken my guess is its a No5 only because of the filler screw but a late one at that, most of my marked body No5s are either late No5 early No23Mk1s hope this helps,,,,, Dave

www.millsgrenades.co.uk

 

[gothica7]

Hi Ken,

Shame you stripped it all down, was in its original paint from probably just post WW1. Dont try and remove the aluminium filler, there seems to be a chemical reaction with the iron which seems to weld them in. I reccon its a No 5 as Dave says from the filler.
I have one with zakly the same markings front and back but with no hole drilled for filler.

Andy

 

[Bonnex]

I agree with Andy, in fact I would say if your are going to mess with it then restore to being a money box - far less common than the ordinary Mills. As made would have had the decals shown below:

 

[ken68]

No probs this is it and all that is being done , it will be kept as a money box each pound i put in goes to my next mills , i have never collected them before ,the black chipped paint on it, i dont think it was original .
it is still a mystery to what the markings are can't find them anywhere not alot of No5 listed the same as the No36

thanks all

ken

 

[gothica7]

Hi Ken,
the paintwork was original as there was a bit of the paper sticker on the front. All such No 5 money boxes were painted black.
The marks on your gren are just casting or foundry marks, ime afraid i dont think you will ever find out who made it. There wasnt a requirement for a makers mark or date until the production of the No 23/3 & No 36 during the latter part of WW1. Some producers, such as Vandervell did mark their gren bodies but is very uncommon. Ime sure Norman can confirm this.

Andy

 

[Bonnex]

I agree Andy it is difficult to associate No5 and 23 castings to a manufacturer but I would lean on Dave for marks. I know a few can be done reliably (certain CAV ones as you say) and we should by now have worked out who did the transverse/centrecast bodies but I dont think we can. As for the markings on Ken's grenade I will pose the question 'was the X stamped on or is it a casting mark?'.

As to whether or not the moneyboxes are No 5s or 23s remains difficult to work out. You would think that by the time the moneyboxes were produced (in say 1919) that No5s would be a rareity as far as the surplus market was concerned but Tom would remind us that the Min of Mun had plently. The Army had lots of No 23s and wanted to swap these with the Min of Mun stocks of No 36s being liquidated but the bureucrats played hardball. I guess 5 and 23 bodies were available for this post-war 'trench art'. There are of course moneyboxes made from 23MkIII/36 bodies.

 

[Snufkin]

I've just caught up with this post having been away a while. Further to Norman's comments, in 1918 the British Government agreed to buy back from the French Government over 3.8 million No.5 and 300,000 No.23 MkII, that had been supplied to the French in 1916-7. Also No.23 MkII were being issued to the British Army as late as July 1918, so there were undoubtedly enough surplus castings at the end of hostilities to make a few money boxes. Attached shows another with the X mark, which I'd suggest is a casting mark.



Tom.

 

[Bonnex]

[...]. Attached shows another with the X mark, which I'd suggest is a casting mark.

Tom.

Thanks Tom, I just thought it curious that so many of the moneyboxes seem to be marked with an 'X' almost as if it represents something like 'sold' or 'safe'. I suppose I should look for an X on a regular body.

 

[Snufkin]

Thanks Tom, I just thought it curious that so many of the moneyboxes seem to be marked with an 'X' almost as if it represents something like 'sold' or 'safe'. I suppose I should look for an X on a regular body.

Norman, in all honesty I don't recollect ever seeing a regular body with an X; it's more that I've seen a number of the money boxes with alternative markings or none at all. For example, the attached shows the middle body with a W. However, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of some being marked to denote surplus for the post-war souvenir market...



Tom