Opinions & Info-Soviet PMD-6 & PMD-7

[Kilroy was Here]

Hi, I have added to my collection what I think is a Soviet PMD-6 wood box mine. It was from a seller in Poland, and came with a MUV fuze. I would think it's a Russian mine or a Finnish mine, I do not think any others made these?

This mine has a white stripe diagonally painted on top, which I think is the Soviet marking for a training mine. I already had the glass bottle charge, or "Stalin's Perfume bottle", and it fits perfectly inside.

A smaller mine I have had for a while, similar to a PMD-7 it is pictured next to this new practice mine. A few people have told me this is a Finnish box mine, and a almost exact copy of the Russian mines. After comparison of the construction or the two mines, I am not too sure that the smaller mine is "Finnish" and could in fact maybe be a Russian box mine?

What do others know and think about these box mines? Does anybody have more info, and detailed photos to share?

Regards, Steve
"Dr.Ruby"
P.S. the small charge in PMD-7 is 100% INERT it is a repro I have made.

 

[EOD]

Kilroy, the one with the while stripe looks pretty good and should be an inert PMD-6 training aid. The official designation should be UPMD-6 then if the designation is applied as on other training aids.

The glass bottle would make a PMD-6F of it.

Does your mine have any markings on the backside? Life ones had the lot number given there in large characters.

The small one is definately no PMD-7. Plenty of these came from Finnish military surplus and I doubt they are reproductions or the like.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Kilroy, the one with the while stripe looks pretty good and should be an inert PMD-6 training aid. The official designation should be UPMD-6 then if the designation is applied as on other training aids.

The glass bottle would make a PMD-6F of it.

Does your mine have any markings on the backside? Life ones had the lot number given there in large characters.

The small one is definately no PMD-7. Plenty of these came from Finnish military surplus and I doubt they are reproductions or the like.

Hi, thanks for the info. I know the numbers and markings you mention, I have seen others marked but unfortunately there are no markings I see on the mine except the white stripe.

OK, so the small mine is Finnish then. It looks similar to a Soviet PMD-7. What era are these Finnish box mines? Did they use these type of mines after WW2?

I think your right are correct about the larger mine, it is a PMD-6F if the glass charge is used. What era do you think this mine is also, WW2?

Regards, Steve

 

[Tmine35]

Finnish Army surplus shops sold during years thousands of inert WW2 box mines of these 3 types shown in my picture:
-Captured Russian, size 197 x 82mm, with lot number stencilled inside ( shows here under the bottle ).
-Finnish, size 182 x 81mm
-Finnish 150 x 68mm
All Finnish ones are unmarked. Any other types or other with Russian markings I haven't seen in the sale.

 

[EOD]

You are correct about the larger mine, yes, it is a PMD-6F if the Stalins perfume bottle is used for the charge. What era do you think this mine is also?

Regards, Steve

The PMD-6F is definately WWII.

There was also one made of steel but just in Sevastopol under siege.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Finnish Army surplus shops sold during years thousands of inert WW2 box mines of these 3 types shown in my picture:
-Captured Russian, size 197 x 82mm, with lot number stencilled inside ( shows here under the bottle ).
-Finnish, size 182 x 81mm
-Finnish 150 x 68mm
All Finnish ones are unmarked. Any other types or other with Russian markings I haven't seen in the sale.

Hi Reino, Excellent photograph, thank you for showing all 3 of yours together. OK, so then the proper info about my 150x68mm small mine that I have, is that is for sure Finnish in origin, and that it is also for sure pre-45 WW2 manufacture? Is this correct?

I would really like to know if the Finnish made these small 150x68mm box mines "post" World War Two?

Can you send a good picture of scan of the small charge markings in your small mine? Is it a correct WW2 repro or deko real charge?

Regards, Steve

 

[Kilroy was Here]

The PMD-6F is definately WWII.

There was also one made of steel but just in Sevastopol under siege.

Hi Thanks, I knew the glass bottle charge was for sure WW2 period, and was sure the Soviets used the mine PMD-6 or F in WW2, but I know they also liked to use/make the same types weapons post war sometimes.

So the Russians did not make wooden box mines like PMD after WW2?

I have never seen a steel PMD box mine made during the Siege. Do you have a photo, or know where to see one online?
Unfortunately I cannot travel right now to Russia, and the excellent museums that might possibly have an example :nerd:

Regards, Steve

 

[Tmine35]

Attached the requested close-up of Finnish 100 grams TNT-charge stamp. This paper is from original charge but now wrapped on a wood block of same size.

The other picture shows same block fitted in the larger mine body. I don't know why this size was ever made as we didn't have a TNT-block of that size. Also all sold mines had this wooden filler block in them ( as well as all Russian mines as glass bottles were found in very few ones only).
I have plenty of Finnish WW2 mine and igniter manuals but have so far seen nothing about this M/43 box mine. One day I for sure find a manual and it will light up the questions.

These box mines were not manufactured in Finland after 1944. We had so many left over and also captured Russian ones and storages were flooding over all kind of materiel. The main problem was to get rid of stocks.

The Russian ones were captured before September 1944 so definitely all sold from our Army are WW2 ones. What has appeared from other sources I don't know.

 

[vinnyw]

HA STEVE
I can tell you the one with the stripe is made by hand instead of being machine made.To me that makes it even better.
vinny :tinysmile_classes_t

 

[EOD]

So they did not make wooden box mines like PMD after WW2?

If I understand the marking right on the one I have seen they may also have been made after WWII (1948) but the PMD-6F with the bottle is unlikely to be a post war product. Means no post war bottles.

If there will be a steel PMD-6 in a museum it will be in Sevastopol. These are literally unknown - even to most Russians.

 

[pat]

the pmd 6f with white band is made by polish army, it's a practice mine, copy of the russian pmd 6 f, the white band is typical of polish army,
the little mine is m/41 finnish ap mine :tinysmile_twink_t:

 

[EOD]

The white band was used in the whole WARSAW pact as a marker for inert training aids.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Attached the requested close-up of Finnish 100 grams TNT-charge stamp. This paper is from original charge but now wrapped on a wood block of same size.

I have plenty of Finnish WW2 mine and igniter manuals but have so far seen nothing about this M/43 box mine. One day I for sure find a manual and it will light up the questions.

These box mines were not manufactured in Finland after 1944. We had so many left over and also captured Russian ones and storages were flooding over all kind of materiel. The main problem was to get rid of stocks

Excellent pics, Thanks Reino. I will attempt to make a repro charge for my "M41" or now also it has been said "M43" "FINNISH" box mine!

I hope also that some one would come up with pictures or scans of an original Finnish period manual or document that gives the actual name and designation for these small box mines, that I and others have shown.

Regards, Steve

 

[Kilroy was Here]

the pmd 6f with white band is made by polish army, it's a practice mine, copy of the russian pmd 6 f, the white band is typical of polish army,
the little mine is m/41 finnish ap mine :tinysmile_twink_t:

Are you sure it is not a Russian mine that the Polish used for practice?

I think the M/41 was a bigger mine than M/43??

How can you tell the difference between Polish and Russian PMD-6?

Regards, Steve

 

[Kilroy was Here]

MUV fuzes

Here are some MUV fuzes I have collected. From what I have learned, I believe they are all WW2 fuzes... except obviously the one MUV that is dated 1963r, which is the fuze that came with the PMD-6f I just received and showed at start of thread.

It is interesting to see that the 1963r fuze is almost identical to the WW2 issued fuzes. This shows again that the Soviets changed their equip and gear very little, and very slowly from what was used during the GPW.

Although, when something works well...why change it. This is sometimes a good principle/theory.

Regards, Steve

 

[Fr Cdn AT]

Hi Kilroy,

Found this prety neet website...
Hpoe it might help in your research...

Go down to other weapons... then landmines part 1 and 2.

http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/MAIN.html

Cheers.
FCAT.

 

[Fr Cdn AT]

And as info on PMD 6 and 7, here's what I got...



Cheers again.
FCAT.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

And as info on PMD 6 and 7, here's what I got...

Cheers again.
FCAT.

Hi Fcat, Thanks for the website link, and info & scans, very interesting. The scans are a little dark, but I could see fairly good. I have been looking for this 1951 U.S. manual on Soviet Ord, but this manual is not easy to find. I have the '51 & '53 Manuals on German mines and Ord. items, but not this Soviet manual yet. :tinysmile_angry_t:

Regards, Steve

 

[Tmine35]

Here we have a short explanation of Finnish box mine M/43.
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/landmines2.htm
I wonder whether the larger type couldbe the one called M/41 and smaller M/43?
Finding the manual one day will clear it up.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Here we have a short explanation of Finnish box mine M/43.
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/landmines2.htm
I wonder whether the larger type couldbe the one called M/41 and smaller M/43?
Finding the manual one day will clear it up.

Hi Reino, this website FCAT also posted......it has the wrong measurements. it says about these small M/43 Finnish mines.........

LAATIKKOMIINA m/43 "penaali" (box-mine m/43 "pen-box")....is "10cm in length ...... it should be "15cm" or 150mm for the small Finnish mine.

It seems Nobody has the correct info for Finnish box mines. These Finnish mines have got be one of the most odd, unknown ordnance items I have in my collection.

Regards, Steve