Petard grenades

[dano1917]

small German petard

As mentioned before I have never seen a real small German petard grenade, only the line drawing from the Delhomme book German Grenades of the Great War. I made mine by scaling up the line drawing. Does anyone have an original of this grenade. Has anyone ever seen one. I would like so much to see a picture if one even exists. I have attached the line drawing from the Delhomme book. I have been seeking other validation on this one for some time....HELP....Dano

 

[dano1917]

oops

Oops, forgot to attach picture

 

[FNG61]

There is a new book out, large, hardcover, on the French military/French equipment of WW1 and is very similar to the ones on German equipment of WW1 done with period postcards. Excellent book, not cheap, but a wealth of information in photos. There is an excellent photograph of a French trench and hanging along the wall on a wire are a line of 8-12 3rd army type petards. An exceptional grenade photo.
Ive always been wary of the 3rd army type petards, their legitamacy, and here's a few things to keep in mind while scrutinizing them. Supposedly they were dipped in wax befor issue as a waterproofing measure, this is what has kept the wood preserved on what are obviously dug up grenades. The wax was absorbed more into the wood than the metal so the wood in this case has lasted better than the metal(you will hear people bitch "Well why is the wood so good but the metal is rusted?"). There are 2 different types of wood in their construction. Soft (pine?) for the handle and a harder wood(oak?)for the detonater holder. A faker may not take this into consideration. The wire that binds the tube and detonater holder to the handle as well as that of the belt hook is made of iron wire. You can tell iron wire by the way it rusts. It will have a longitudinal grain to it like wood. Steel wire will rust evenly. Im unaware of a supply of iron wire in this day and age. A faker will use steel wire. You will see on honest petards steel wire binding the detonator holder block to the handle. This is because the original wire broke when the det holder was removed for inerting and modern wire was all that was available for a replacement. You can compare old and new wire on a genuine relic. The person who did the deactivating/restoring may have tried to rust the new wire on the det holder to get it to match the patina of the original wire so that it isnt so glaringly obvious without it being an intent to decieve.

 

[Millsman]

Thanks for the info. That may explain the different wire on my det box.

John

 

[dano1917]

Here is a picture of a couple of French petards that used to be in my collection. The twin charge I am convinced of its originality but after reading what i've read I am not so sure about the single charge??? Dano

 

[Millsman]

Looking at the photo I think you are right. I've never seen a faked twin charge petard.

John

 

[Der_Feldgraue]

Here is my example and the empty relic fragmentation body I've found. Any opinions on the petard?

 

[Millsman]

I would say original tubes but the rest is repro. The wire looks too modern, the det block is definitly an add on and the belt wire looks very new.

John

 

[dano1917]

Hi Jens, If it is repro it is a pretty good one. the wire thickness appears correct, and the wire holding the block is thinner which as was mentioned in an earlier post could have been done when inerted and rewired. I honestly don't know as it is much better than the repros i've seen. this thread has been most informative and I had no idea that the fakes ran so rampant. Dano

 

[Trenchwarfare]

Back when you could list grenades on ebay, I saw lots of Petards. All had the same patina. That's when I got mine, so it's still questionable. At the same time, there were also no restrictions on trench clubs. They were everywhere. And I bought a few.:tinysmile_cry_t: Most turned out to be fakes. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Especially, when the whole world is watching. Sometimes a sleeper gets through, but not often. We discussed the fake clubs, on another forum. A guy said he knew the man in France, that made clubs, "French Nails", and racquet grenades. Then he put them in his "time machine". Who knows what caustic material he uses. The Chinese use chicken poop, to patinate edged weapons, and other things made from brass, and ferrous metals. Urine does an excellent job as well. A mixture of soy sauce, and bbq sauce, will turn a blade dark, over night. Pitted in two days. It's a scarry collecting world out there.

 

[18pounder]

Back when you could list grenades on ebay, I saw lots of Petards. All had the same patina. That's when I got mine, so it's still questionable. At the same time, there were also no restrictions on trench clubs. They were everywhere. And I bought a few.:tinysmile_cry_t: Most turned out to be fakes. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Especially, when the whole world is watching. Sometimes a sleeper gets through, but not often. We discussed the fake clubs, on another forum. A guy said he knew the man in France, that made clubs, "French Nails", and racquet grenades. Then he put them in his "time machine". Who knows what caustic material he uses. The Chinese use chicken poop, to patinate edged weapons, and other things made from brass, and ferrous metals. Urine does an excellent job as well. A mixture of soy sauce, and bbq sauce, will turn a blade dark, over night. Pitted in two days. It's a scarry collecting world out there.

very interesting thread.
You can get a fantastic corrosion effect too,by placing the object in a large bag and spraying a fine mist of salt water every day for a few days,using a garden fine sprayer.
Gets the old ''green'' look too.

The best thing we can do is spread the word and highlight this industry,share information on all the tricks of the trade and let others know as much as possible.
The more information we share here protects our pockets and our collections.

 

[dano1917]

I think the WW1 trench club has to be one of the most reproduced items of all time. Generally if it is wood and was not daubed with wax it is probably no good. Let's face it a good WW1 trench club is worth quite a few stones, so a repro still makes a mighty fine display piece. How could one begin to depict the horror of WW1 without at least one trench club? I don't have one yet but have made 1 or 2 over the years.....Dano

 

[Trenchwarfare]

I do I do! Have some clubs that is. Well maybe. A couple are still suspect. Yeah I know, two of them are practice grenades. But appear to have ben used as clubs.

 

[paul the grenade]

heres some close up details of things to look for on original models.
Paul.

 

[paul the grenade]

2 more pics.
cheers, Paul.:tinysmile_twink_t2:

 

[dano1917]

Here is a closer up image of the petards I once had. Again the 2 charge on the left is original. Take a good look at the wire wrap. Now the single charge ones on the right I once thought were both original, now i'm not so sure. One looks better than the other but I now think both to be fake. I sure do miss that 2 charge one something awful. This thread has been really informative and it make me sad that there are so many repros - and the trench clubs....yeeeeesch....Dano

 

[Der_Feldgraue]

Paul, I have to check my petard at home, but the Bickford fuze for example is also inside of my grenade.

 

[Gustaf]

Hey Dano
I was very unhappy to hear that you thought your petards were fake, so I dug out mine and it has the cardboard tube in the pipe and the bickford fuse remains, but it also has the white paint.
Hey Paul, was the white paint a fake marker, I was unsure, as you showed what to look for in real ones, then you posted a photo of two with white paint with question marks.
My petard is the one in Dano's photo on the far right.
Best
Gus

 

[paul the grenade]

Hi Gus.
I put ??? next to the pic as i was wondering why they had white paint.
Hopefully someone may know why. The paint is also on the bickford fuze on the other side of the block. Maybe it was a sealing paste or was to show that the block had a fuze fitted.
Cheers, Paul.

 

[dano1917]

Gus, I didn't mean to say it was fake, just don't know. I had no idea you had bought that one. Must have been at show of shows. As you described it sounds original to me. It is just so hard to tell on some. No offense buddy. That one has thick enough binding wire to be good. Did the dealer still have the twin charge?
D a n o