poltewerke
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
MEMBERS, CAN ANYONE FURNISH THE FOLLOWING - WHAT RIFLE LAUNCHED GRENADES WHERE TRIALLED WITH THE U.K. 4.85MM. S.A. SYSTEM- WAY BACK IN THE MID 1970'S, ??? And Trailed in the 5.56mm SA 80's ?? Regards, R.
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- Thread starter poltewerke
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Ron,
I'm afraid I don't really know the answer but the 'standard' for that period was probably the Mecar 40mm series which came in numerous flavours: armour-piercing (ARP-40), Fragmentation (FRG-40), various Illum and smoke, with and without bullet traps. A 1972 trial, but with an SLR, included a Mecar FRG-40 with a BT which might suggest a Mecar theme for the period.
poltewerke
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
UK grens for 4.85 & 5.56mm. rifles.
Bonnex, yes l would agree with you - have a few from 'home source' if you know what l mean. Recall the 'Strim" gren used with 4,85mm. but can'not find the particular note book - its here somewhere l will just have to keep searching. l do have p'copies of weapon history books that come with each weapon and this is my next port of call.Bye the bye, am trying to locate Robert Gerber from Swiss land and Norman Bonney from England - do you know if either are members?? Have only just joined network so I'm a little in the dark. However, thanks for the reply, Regards, RonB.
Bonnex, yes l would agree with you - have a few from 'home source' if you know what l mean. Recall the 'Strim" gren used with 4,85mm. but can'not find the particular note book - its here somewhere l will just have to keep searching. l do have p'copies of weapon history books that come with each weapon and this is my next port of call.Bye the bye, am trying to locate Robert Gerber from Swiss land and Norman Bonney from England - do you know if either are members?? Have only just joined network so I'm a little in the dark. However, thanks for the reply, Regards, RonB.
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Strim/4.85
Ron,
I didn't know that STRIM was was trialled on the 4.85, that is very interesting. Did STRIM make a lighter version than the 73mm type of the 50's? I ask because the recoil energy of the 73 is guaranteed to give the firer piles - might explain a few bandy legged acquaintances at Enfield and Warminster.
The British trialled the STRIM 73 in the fifties but didn't take it up. The Indian Army did and even manufactured their own version (Grenade, Rifle, Heat, 73MM 1A).
I'm sorry I didn't do more with Woodend in the 70's to document the grenade trials for the 4.85 - I guess it was probably classified stuff.
Norman Bonney
Ron,
I didn't know that STRIM was was trialled on the 4.85, that is very interesting. Did STRIM make a lighter version than the 73mm type of the 50's? I ask because the recoil energy of the 73 is guaranteed to give the firer piles - might explain a few bandy legged acquaintances at Enfield and Warminster.
The British trialled the STRIM 73 in the fifties but didn't take it up. The Indian Army did and even manufactured their own version (Grenade, Rifle, Heat, 73MM 1A).
I'm sorry I didn't do more with Woodend in the 70's to document the grenade trials for the 4.85 - I guess it was probably classified stuff.
Norman Bonney
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poltewerke
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Hello Norman
lt's you -great, l thought you may have left us. Five people in the old club have departed for higher places since we last spoke. But back to business, contacted a guy on special projects and he passed on the following; Belgium STRIM., 40mm. GR AP model 32 ZA viz. 5.56mm. cal. (have info on launching cartridge if you need). Re. 5.56mm. SA80. - lTDU at Warminster trialled 'Arges (SGG) Hg. Gr. 78' rifle grenade & ' FN. M265 with bt. trap. No doubt as you mentioned other variants tested. Have a STRIM and ENERGA SUP samples on the way and can photo once recieved should you wish. Once again, great to hear from ya. RonB.
lt's you -great, l thought you may have left us. Five people in the old club have departed for higher places since we last spoke. But back to business, contacted a guy on special projects and he passed on the following; Belgium STRIM., 40mm. GR AP model 32 ZA viz. 5.56mm. cal. (have info on launching cartridge if you need). Re. 5.56mm. SA80. - lTDU at Warminster trialled 'Arges (SGG) Hg. Gr. 78' rifle grenade & ' FN. M265 with bt. trap. No doubt as you mentioned other variants tested. Have a STRIM and ENERGA SUP samples on the way and can photo once recieved should you wish. Once again, great to hear from ya. RonB.
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Nearly expired but the sex change gave me a new lease life. Would be interested to see photos of STRIM and Super Energa; there were half a dozen different super energa configurations (eg H1, H2) tested in the mid-60s and it would be enlightening to know what has survived. The 50's era STRIM 73s that have survived and that I have seen are all the inert version with a brownish body and tail unit with a white head.
poltewerke
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
gren trial for UK.
N. The Super 'E' is the type 'H1'. Should have sample soon and will then post image. Regards, RonB.
N. The Super 'E' is the type 'H1'. Should have sample soon and will then post image. Regards, RonB.
Hi, Here's a bit of info on STRIM's. http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/AD153887
Hopefully it is of some use. Regards Colin
Hopefully it is of some use. Regards Colin
Attachments
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Ah, that explains it. Its a Luchaire contraption. The STRIM 73 seemed a bit oversized for the 4.85 rifle.
Thanks
SuperEnerga
Ron,
I look forward to seeing it. In case you are unaware of the significance of H1 type I list the trial types:
Type G - Super Energa Grenade - as for Service
Type H1 - Super Energa with inert filled head, plugs representing fuze and main detonator, LIVE sustainer motor: the whole ballistically matched and weighted to the same CoG as the Service Type grenade (Quantity 240)
Type H2 - Type H1 with inert filled sustainer motor (Quantity 10)
Type H3 - Type H1 with inert filled fuze (Qty 30)
Type H4 - Type H1 but with LIVE filled fuze and a LIVE filled main detonator (Qty 55)
Type H5 - Type H1 but with LIVE filled fuze, plug representing main detonator, and with a flash pellet situated forward of the shroud to enable fuze functioning on wood to be detected (Qty 20)
[OB Proc 40106 May 1964 refers]
If I remember correctly the H1 sustainer motor venting was internal to the tube (ie it might not look like a rocket motor!). A later trial design was used which had small vents on the outside of the tail tube to reduce back blast.
Ron,
I look forward to seeing it. In case you are unaware of the significance of H1 type I list the trial types:
Type G - Super Energa Grenade - as for Service
Type H1 - Super Energa with inert filled head, plugs representing fuze and main detonator, LIVE sustainer motor: the whole ballistically matched and weighted to the same CoG as the Service Type grenade (Quantity 240)
Type H2 - Type H1 with inert filled sustainer motor (Quantity 10)
Type H3 - Type H1 with inert filled fuze (Qty 30)
Type H4 - Type H1 but with LIVE filled fuze and a LIVE filled main detonator (Qty 55)
Type H5 - Type H1 but with LIVE filled fuze, plug representing main detonator, and with a flash pellet situated forward of the shroud to enable fuze functioning on wood to be detected (Qty 20)
[OB Proc 40106 May 1964 refers]
If I remember correctly the H1 sustainer motor venting was internal to the tube (ie it might not look like a rocket motor!). A later trial design was used which had small vents on the outside of the tail tube to reduce back blast.
poltewerke
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
H1 type gren.
Yes your correct, the sustainer motor is single vent at top of stab. tube. The item arrived this morn along with Mod 32 STRIM - mfg. 1970 by F.N. and last is prac. M.265 by Mecar. Will put up images soon. I did check out weapon books for 4,85mm. info. and found the following - WEAPON TRIALS RECORD BOOK For 4.85mm. Phase 2 Rifle, Gun No R.08. SAWS 4.85 TRIAL AT ITDU WARMINSTER FOR SRDE. - 6.6.79 MECAR MUZZLE LAUNCH TRIAL of lLUM & SMOKE. 13.6.79 ARIES TRIAL. 18.6.79 DEMONSTRATION. Trials started on MECAR muzzle launch grens - 1.4.79. The problem is no details of gren models. A total of 555 rds. fired and these were all 'ball' from batch 105/76., 95/76., 95A/76. l guess we can assume Bullet Trap Units on each grenade. The info you supplied is great as l have only blurb on 'H1' Regards, Ron.
Yes your correct, the sustainer motor is single vent at top of stab. tube. The item arrived this morn along with Mod 32 STRIM - mfg. 1970 by F.N. and last is prac. M.265 by Mecar. Will put up images soon. I did check out weapon books for 4,85mm. info. and found the following - WEAPON TRIALS RECORD BOOK For 4.85mm. Phase 2 Rifle, Gun No R.08. SAWS 4.85 TRIAL AT ITDU WARMINSTER FOR SRDE. - 6.6.79 MECAR MUZZLE LAUNCH TRIAL of lLUM & SMOKE. 13.6.79 ARIES TRIAL. 18.6.79 DEMONSTRATION. Trials started on MECAR muzzle launch grens - 1.4.79. The problem is no details of gren models. A total of 555 rds. fired and these were all 'ball' from batch 105/76., 95/76., 95A/76. l guess we can assume Bullet Trap Units on each grenade. The info you supplied is great as l have only blurb on 'H1' Regards, Ron.
poltewerke
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
SA 80 Gren trials
Norman, the M.265 is earlier than 1990?. Have seen samples dated 1982-85. Two other grenades now mentioned are' 58 x N' and ' Prac (INT F) RFL 35'., again associated with SA 80 trials??? God knows what these are. Am not strong on grenades. Once again, thanks for blurb on Energa - great stuff. Best regards, Ron. Have found 'blurb' on Mecar grens - this gren (265) started life around 1980 and published 1981-82 in their latest bullet trap grenades booklet.
Norman, the M.265 is earlier than 1990?. Have seen samples dated 1982-85. Two other grenades now mentioned are' 58 x N' and ' Prac (INT F) RFL 35'., again associated with SA 80 trials??? God knows what these are. Am not strong on grenades. Once again, thanks for blurb on Energa - great stuff. Best regards, Ron. Have found 'blurb' on Mecar grens - this gren (265) started life around 1980 and published 1981-82 in their latest bullet trap grenades booklet.
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poltewerke
HONOURED MEMBER RIP
Thanks very much - wonder if this is refered to as the '58 N' grenade ? Best regards, Ron.
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