I have found almost no information on Russian 85mm ammunition from WWII, and that is surprising given the wonderful color manuals I have for 76mm, 122mm and 152mm ammunition. There has to be a similar manual for the 85mm (come to think of it, I am missing such manuals for the 45mm and 57mm guns). I have also never found anything for the antiaircraft gun. I found this picture on ebay and wanted to share it. The round out front has a T-6 time fuse with protective cover on it. I do not recognize the fuses on the three rounds in the box. These use the same case as the tank rounds and D-44 antitank gun.
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Russian WWII 85mm Antiaircraft Gun Ammunition
- Thread starter M8owner
- Start date
Eggburt1969
Well-Known Member
That's great, as I didn't have that manual. Would you like it converted to single pages per page and text that can be copied? I also have a T-5 time fuze manual if anyone wants that converted too, or the manual of the gun itself.
These are what I show as the rounds that were used in the M1939 AAA gun, 85mm tank gun and D-44 antitank gun.
| 85-39 Ammunition | ||||
| Projectile | Type | Fuse | Complete Round | Notes |
| O-365 | High Explosive | T5 | UOF-365 | Antiaircraft with time fuse |
| O-365 | High Explosive | KTM-1 | UOF-365K | Two piece projectile |
| O-365K | High Explosive | KTM-1 | UOF-365K | One piece projectile |
| BR-365 | Armor Piercing Ballistic Cap | MD7 | UBR-365 | High explosive filler |
| BR-365K | Armor Piercing | MD8 | UBR-365K | High explosive filler. Versions with one or two grooves |
| BR-365P | Armor Piercing Composite Rigid | None | UBR-365P | Also identified as UBR-365PK |
| BR-367 | Armor Piercing Capped, Ballistic Cap | DPR-2 | UBR-367 | |
| BR-367P | Armor Piercing Composite Rigid | None | UBR-367P | |
| BK-2M | High Explosive Antitank | GPV-2 | UBK-1 | |
| PBR-367 | Practice | None | UPBR-367 |
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Here are examples of the BR-365K and BR-365P armor piercing rounds that came out of the Polish ordnance schools in the last few years. I am not certain of the date on the arrowhead BR-365P. The BR-365K shows 1955 in two places. Note the two grooves and different fuse hole compared to the early BR-365K which I believe to be WWII manufacture. The 1955 version has two threads in the bottom; I suppose the inner one is for the MD-8 fuse, and the outer one is for a tracer element. I have seen this same design on my 122mm AP projectile. "SZKOLNY" is Polish for "School".
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Eggburt1969
Well-Known Member
The rusty one looks more like a 53-PBR-367 (53-ПБР-367), which just has a cavity at the rear for a tracer element. The 53-PBR-367 doesn't have those two distinctive grooves after the front bourrelet, just one.
A 53-BR-365K (53-БР-365К) APHE-T projectile (shell) and its MD-8 (МД-8) fuze.
A 53-UBR-365K (53-УБР-365К) round and its 53-BR-365K projectile.
A 53-UPBR-367 (53-УПБР-367) round and its 53-PBR-367 practice APHE-T shell (inert, no HE filling or fuze).
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Eggburt1969
Well-Known Member
Indeed it doesn't seem to have any? If the images below are indeed a 53-PBR-367.
So what is the projectile with just one groove (a cleaner one below)? An earlier form of the 53-BR-365K?
It's not the D-48's 53-BR-372 projectile, as that doesn't seem to have a groove (and yes I know it's got a ballistic and penetrating cap, but these 'can' come off).
Unfortunately I've got no manuals on 85 mm guns from before the late 1940s. Also, the few T-34 manuals I have don't list the ammo. As such I can't check.
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Since the round has "practice" on it and has no groove, I believe it to be the PBR-367; I have never seen one before. I believe the single groove BR-365 is an early version. I have found multiple photos on the internet showing such projectiles.
Here are photos of a BR-372 for the D-48 gun: http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threa...or-Piercing-Projectile?highlight=russian+85mm
Here are photos of a BR-372 for the D-48 gun: http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threa...or-Piercing-Projectile?highlight=russian+85mm
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Eggburt1969
Well-Known Member
A 53-UBR-366K round would be correct, but it uses a 53-BR-365K projectile. As such that designation would seem to be fictitious. The round mentioned was for the 85 mm Anti-Aircraft Gun Model 1944 (85-мм Зенитная Пушка Обр.1944 г.), also known as the KS-1 (КС-1), its GAU index code 52-P-366 (52-П-366).
All the manuals I have show the 53-BR-367 with a ballistic cap, under which is the penetrating cap, and finally the nose of the projectile's body. As such, unless both caps have come off, which could happen on impact with something, it would seem to be fictitious too.
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Here are my 85mm rounds. There are two issues:
1. The BK-2M has a KTM-1 fuse. This is not correct. The fuse should be a GPV-2. Might anyone have two such spare fuses?
2. The O-365K with the T-5 fuse and brass protector is not labeled correctly. I believe it to be a O-365 two piece projectile. The HE round on the right is a O-365K one piece round with KTM-1 fuse.
1. The BK-2M has a KTM-1 fuse. This is not correct. The fuse should be a GPV-2. Might anyone have two such spare fuses?
2. The O-365K with the T-5 fuse and brass protector is not labeled correctly. I believe it to be a O-365 two piece projectile. The HE round on the right is a O-365K one piece round with KTM-1 fuse.
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Eggburt1969
Well-Known Member
Well, they are both Chinese Type 367, and that would seem to be the clone of the Russian 53-UBR-367. This as the colour is wrong and you can see Chinese text. But, yes (other than the colour), this is what a 53-UBR-367 should a look like.
Your image+diagram is from the US 2004 EOD guides (Afghanistan and Iraq) as far as I can tell, whilst the sectional diagram is from the 1994 (1997) ‘DIA Reference Document - Projectile and Warhead Identification Guide - Foreign’.
The EOD guides and the DIA document seem to have quite a few problems. For example.
A supposed 53-BR-365 APHE-T projectile diagram?
A supposed 53-BR-365 APHE-T projectile sectional diagram.
A supposed 53-UBR-365 APHE-T round?
See later comments about the 53-UBR-365...
Well, both are likely variants of the 53-BR-365K armour-piercing high explosive tracer projectile (APHE-T). Neither would be a 53-BR-365 as far as I can tell, this as it is an armour-piercing ballistic-capped high explosive tracer projectile (APBCHE-T). Well, unless all the Russian manuals I have that reference it, other reference sources that reference it, and images of it with stencilled markings are incorrect?
A 53-UBR-365 round.
Two views of 53-BR-365 APBCHE-T projectiles.
A 53-UBR-365 round sectional diagram from the Russian D-44 manual.
A 53-UBR-365 round sectional diagram and details from the Nova 'Handbuch Der Zu Verwertenden Und Zu Vernichtenden Munitionen'.
A 53-BR-365 APBCHE-T projectile sectional diagram from the Russian D-44 manual.
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That was exactly my thinking. Why use the same designation twice.
The post war czech manuals as well as soviet ones I have, list the BR-365 as a capped projectile.
Like You, I do not have pre 1945 manual on 85 mm tank ammo.
There is however a couple projectiles I recovered last month from an April 1945 battlesite. I will check the threads (or what was left of them).
So far I agree that both are variants of the BR-365K as was stated earlier.
The post war czech manuals as well as soviet ones I have, list the BR-365 as a capped projectile.
Like You, I do not have pre 1945 manual on 85 mm tank ammo.
There is however a couple projectiles I recovered last month from an April 1945 battlesite. I will check the threads (or what was left of them).
So far I agree that both are variants of the BR-365K as was stated earlier.