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Show your 17 PR Rounds

And here is the round in it's completely assembled state.
I have been told that the remainder of these rounds that were not fired on Salisbury plain were Sea dumped in the North Sea !:huh:
APPS_T_17_77.JPG
 
these are the my 17pr
I hope you like
the third one from left it's marked APC 17pr with white paint, it's the 1st I see. are they common markings?

the APDS shows by Chris 42 RQ it's postwar design?
regards
DSC02672.jpg
 
The stencilling on the side of the case
CR/C - Cherrier, Canada, where the case was filled in Jan 1945 - 1/45
It was filled with NH powder (U.S. Hercules NH) Non Hydroscopic
Can - Canada
E 66 F - I don't know.

One the Base stencilling
APCBC - armor-piercing capped ballistic cap
The half circle with the T - projectile fitted with tracer
Stampings
CF - normally taken to mean 'Cordite, Full' but in this instance. assuming it is the same case a the photo of the side stencils, 'Charge, Full' (as opposed to reduced)
DB/C - where the case was made, Dominion Bridge Co, Canada (blvd)

Tim. G.
 
thanks Tim
good information
you know were I can find this information? book, web?
best regards
 
Did 17 Pdr have an HE shell? If so grateful for the name of the fuze used.

Thanks,

Hobbit
 
Yes it did have some HE rounds most found with the No 257 Fuze or No 244 fuze UK can also be found with the M 48 serie fuze US.

Cheers Mad :tinysmile_classes_t
 
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This is the correct colour scheme for APDS piercing shot pre 1948 (so from 1943ish to 1948). From 1948 the white bands were deleted and the tip painted dark blue with a red band immediately behind it Rich. Dave
 
For the sake of completenes

I know it is a very old thread, but thought I would add the photos of my 17 Pounder Drill, as I could not find any in the thread.

IMG_5356.JPGIMG_5355.JPGIMG_5354.JPG
 
My joy at finding this Canadian treasure for $100 (including shipping) has now turned to dismay. It is dated 1951 and looks to have original paint and markings - post 1948 pattern - that is all good. However, it will not fit into the 17 pdr case that I have waiting for it. I have a British 17 pdr APDS and an AP-T; both of these are 76mm below the driving bands and fit into 17 pdr cases nicely. This Canadian sabot is 79mm below the driving band, and it has no hope of fitting into a 17 pdr case. I am very anxious for the opinions of our British brethren. Is the 77mm case larger at the case mouth than a 17 pdr? I have no 77mm cases to try it on. Thank you for your help.
 

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You're correct the Canadian proj is wider diameter than the standard apds. I can't answer your question as to why but your projectile is correct.

Canadian next to standard 17pr apds
IMG_1886.jpg
Comparison of diameters. The skirt of the standard 17 pr fits INSIDE the Canadian version
IMG_1889.jpg
Canadian version on top of a 17 pounder case. Does not fit inside this particular case
IMG_1891.jpg
Dave.
 
The inside of the skirt is threaded, so the only thing that seems reasonable is that the Canadian projectile did, in fact, sit on top of the case. There must have been an intermediate piece that connected the projectile and the case. This intermediate piece must have been made of a material that disintegrated upon firing. Does anyone have a drawing or sectioned view of a complete Canadian APDS round?


I definitely think that it would should go on top. The bottom skirt area on the Canadian APDS is the same size as the driving bands on the AP-T. I found a piece of brass 3 inch diameter tubing that is an exact fit to mate the Canadian APDS to my case. All of my cases have crimps - we do not get much selection on this side of the pond.

comparison of 17 pdr APDS.jpg
 
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I'm sure I've seen a diagram or photograph of the Canadian version and it appeared to fit over or on the case just as you described. It made no sense to me either and I'm just hoping someone out there can solve the problem.
Dave.
 
A firing trial was conducted in1951 where it was found that accuracy was considerably improved with the Shot QF 17pr/77mm APDS/T Mks 1, 2 and 3, if a short rubber sleeve was fitted over the rear end of the sabot.

They were approved for use in February 1952, but ONLY when the shot was fitted to cartridge cases for use with the17pr gun. The sleeves were packed separately, and were issued on a one for one basis with these APDS/T cartridges.

Cartridge Case QF 17pr APDS/T Mk1 is fitted to Shot APDS/T Mk 1
Cartridge Case QF 17pr APDS/T Mk2 is fitted to Shot APDS/T Mks 2 and 3.

There is no improvement in accuracy with the sleeve when used with either Cartridge QF 77mm APDS/T or Cartridge QF 17pr APDS/T Canadian.

The only difference between the APDS/T Mks 1 and 2 cases is that the Mk 2 mouth has been increased in diameter to overcome wide variations in shot diameters. This probably caused an unacceptable level of mouth splits when the shot were being rammed into the case prior to coning over the skirt.

The light and dark blue bands to indicate Semi Armour Piercing (SAP) and Armour Piercing (AP) respectively, were introduced into the British marking system officially in Inter Services Ammunition and Ammunition Package Markings 1948. That is not to say that they were not being used earlier, especially when other countries making our ammunition used their own marking systems.
 
Does anyone have a list of all the 17pr APDS cartridges with each of the mks of cases and projectiles, with dates.... and specifically improvement of accuracy of the 17pr APDS projectiles.

I am aware that the 17pr APDS began to trickle into combat usage around operation Goodwood, but that there were accuracy issues. I am also aware of at least 3 different petal designs for projectiles dated 1943-45... presumably to improve these accuracy issues.

The thread above sounds like the accuracy issues were still an issue til 1951. Was this the case ?
 
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