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Small Arms vs Cannon vs Large Caliber

B

Big Al

Well-Known Member
A general question:

Where does "small arms ammunition" end?

I have seen military and other documents which consider anything up to about 30 or 35 mm as small arms ammunition. So what is the dividing line?

The same can be said of cartridges. If we define cartridges as projectile and propellant combined in one piece then we have cartridges up to at leaset 155mm. If we consider just the case then we go up to at least 80cm.
 
Small arms up to ????

In the US, as we defined things for the Military Munitions Response Program, in conjunction with the ever helpful EPA, we took small arms up to (not including) 20mm. This was done primarily as a point where explosive rounds were not a problem below 20mm. Of course, if the new Cal.50 Mk211 round gets very widespread, we'd have to rethink that.

At the same time, the DoD guys responsible for recycling brass, to the benefit of some DoD programs, put out a directive that defined small arms to include "casings up to 105mm" which we knew was only an attempt to control the larger brass casings, but didn't make EPA feel like they could trust DoD.

For years the ATF used to consider .50 inch (or Cal.) the maximum size for legal small arms, but they seem to now focus on the amount of explosives that are, or could be in the round, and the type of ignition system used.

So, I don't have an answer......
 
For EOD purposes (at least until early 90s) small arms was 40mm and under.
 
I have a tendency (preference?) to go with 40mm and less as "small-caliber" or "small arms" ammunition.

As noted in the classic reference "Small_caliber Ammunition Identification Guide, Volume 2, 20-mm to 40-mm Cartridges", Defense Intelligence Agency, DST-1160G-514-78-VOL 2. the US Army also classes all 40mm and less as small arms or small caliber ammunition.
 
Big Al,
An interesting concept, that Defense Intelligence Agency would speak for or try to establish any policy for the US Army! DIA is not part of the Army, and really not much of an authority on ammunition.

I have a copy of TM 9-1900, Ammunition General, that says (Chapter 2, Classes of Ammunition; Section I, Small Arms Ammunition; Paragraph 59, General) "Ammunition used in weapons whose bore is 0.60 inch or less (rifles, carbines, pistols, revolvers and machineguns) and in shotguns is classed as small arms ammunition."

However, there are other references, some others of which also seem more definitive than where DIA "divided" two volumes of a reference they published.
 
The DIA did NOT prepare the manuals.

It clearly states that:

" Prepared by U.S. Army, Army Material Development and Readiness Command, Foregin Science abd Technology Conter"

and:

"...under the DoD S&T intelligence production program and approved by the Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence, US Army."

Clearly at some level the US Army considers 40mm and less as small-caliber or small arms ammunition.

HOWEVER the book "Text Book of Ammunition", 1936, London, published by HMSO, in Chapter VIII Small Arm Ammunition only includes ammunition up to .50 so the British Army has a different take.
 
40mm as in ammo for grenade launchers? I would think that 40mm Bofors rounds are artillery ammo, at least that's what TM9-1300-203 Artillery Ammuntion, April 1967 calls it. :tinysmile_twink_t: TM9-1990 Small Arms Ammunition Sept. 1947 only goes to .50 cal and shotgun ammo. TM9-1300-200 Amuntion, General Oct 1969 w/ change 5 Sept 1993 states that, "Small caliber ammunition, as used herein, describes a cartridge or families of cartridges intended for use in various types of hand-held or mounted wepons through 30mm. Within a caliber desination, these wepons may include one or more of the following: rifles (except recoilless), carbines, pistols, revolvers, machineguns and shotguns." Chapter 3 Small-Arms Ammuntion, section 3-1 General.
 
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The breaks you query about vary from service to service, country to country, and time to time. There are no "generally accepted" standards, sorry. :tinysmile_grin_t:
 
Gents, There IS an International definition of Small Arms Ammunition found in the United Nations Recommendations on the Transportation of Dangerous Goods (Model Regulations) Part 3 Appendix B which defines SAA as -

CARTRIDGES, SMALL ARMS​
Ammunition consisting of a cartridge case fitted with a centre or rim fire primer and containing
both a propelling charge and a solid projectile. They are designed to be fired in weapons of calibre not larger than 19.1 mm.

Hope this helps.​
 
In considering the "cannon" aspect of the heading, there is a complication: the US uses the term cannon to refer to the barrel of any piece of ordnance, including mortars.

Europe tends to use "cannon" as a shorthand for "automatic cannon", meaning a fast-firing high-velocity gun with a calibre between 20mm (generally agreed) and 57mm (more speculative). These days, automatic guns with a calibre above 57mm are limited to warships (ignoring burst-fire artillery), where they are simply known as guns...
 
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