Spanish 2inch mortar ammunition

[spotter]

I have read that the British 2inch mortar was originally a spanish design,,does anyone have any info/images of the spanish ammunition for this
thanks allan

 

[MissingSomething]

I believe it was French..... "Brandt" designed.....

 

[spotter]

The reference i have came from the book "Mortars" By Ian Hogg .It says "The spanish Ecia mortar proved to be superior to all the others and the military design department set bout making some modifications to simplify manufacture.once this had been done 10 mortars together with 1,600 HE and 1,600 smoke bombs,were ordered for troop trials in november 1937.The result of this trial was confirmation that the design was sound,and the director of artillery,responsible for weapons procurement decided in february 1938 to go ahead with an order for 500 2in mortars ,together with the necessary ammunition,without waiting for further evaluation or discussion.These were of course made under license in Britain,for by then the Ecia fim was embroiled in the Spanish civil war"

 

[MissingSomething]

Ok, here is a slightly different reference (wikipedia)....

The 2-inch mortar had been developed during the 1930s after the British Army had inspected weapons of a similar calibre in service with other European countries, including the Spanish 50mm mortar. Although deemed unsuitable for the British Army as it stood, the Spanish mortar did serve as the starting point from which the Armament Research Department could begin development of its own version. In November 1937ten examples of the new weapon were readied with 1600 rounds each of high-explosive and smoke bombs. The resulting trials confirmed the reliability and dependability of the weapon. The Director of Artillery ordered the weapon to be placed in production in February 1938, only four months after the initial field trials, which meant that by 1939 some 500 of the weapons and their associated ammunition were already established in service as the Mk II with crews trained in the use of the weapon.

The Bold is added by me. From what I understand the Brits took this and then with the Belgians and French (Brandt) developed what turned into the 2" Mortar.

I have to go looking again for the other references that I got that info from.

Just my 2 cents.... maybe I am out to lunch too.....:tinysmile_hmm_t:

 

[Bonnex]

There was quite a bit of work done in the 30's by the Armament Design Department on the light mortar bombs. In fact they were initially designated 'Grenades' (hence my interest) and featured in 2.5-inch as well as 2-inch. I will dig through my notes and try to add a bit of detail.

Norman

 

[Bonnex]

Ecia

Herewith a DesignDept drawing dated May 1933 of an ECIA bomb (about 2.5-inch). In low res and a zipped version.

N

 

[Bonnex]

Ecia

DD(L)6971 about July 1939. Note the grenade fuze and designation.

N

 

[Bonnex]

Ecia

Sorry the last image should have been dated 1937. Herewith DD(L)7167 which is starting to look like the familiar Bomb, ML, HE 2-inch. It still has the Humphries/CSOF Allways fuze from the No 54 Grenade at this stage and indeed it was regarded as a No 54 Grenade modified for use with a 'bombthrower'.

N

 

[Bonnex]

Ecia/bsa

DD(L)7171 for the 2.5-inch bomb thrower from BSA.

 

[spotter]

Thanks for the replys,everyone,you can clearly see the distinctive 2inch round shape evolving,ref the always fuze was this replaced as part of the evolution of the round,or was there other reasons,,faults etc ?

 

[Bonnex]

One of the reasons might have been to do with a 'change of management'. In August 1937 the responsibility for the ECIA and BSA 'grenade throwers' passed from the Small Arms Committee to the Ordnance Committee (OC) who were more used to dealing with mortars and ammunition for them. It was at this time that the designation of the ammunition changed from grenade to [mortar] bomb.

No doubt the tape safety arrangement for the allways fuze caused some concern for the OC (potential for tape weight to dislodge and jam between mortar and bomb on firing - although this had been sorted out in an experimental design of the No 54 grenade (another story)) possibly causing work to start on the No 151 Fuze.

 

[spotter]

thanks for the explanation and excellent info ,its been very usefull
regards allan

 

[no3nh4]

I have read that the British 2inch mortar was originally a spanish design,,does anyone have any info/images of the spanish ammunition for this
thanks allan

Hello,

I apologize for my bad English. There is a joke in Spain that says: what is the English language? It is a thing that a Spanish studies lifetime without learning it. :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

The mortar grenade of 50 millimeters manufactured by Ecia (Esperanza y Cia) and ordnance in Spain in the years 30 were design for Vicente Valero of Bernabe (This mortar grenade is called in Spain "Sistema Valero"). Foto 1

The grenade was designed so that to be very safe but it had as defect that it had many of pieces, some of them difficult to manufacture (See photo 2).

During the Spanish Civil War it checked that this grenade was a very expensive and difficult of manufacturing in war time for what modified their design. Their system was changed and one fuze of French design was used. It was called "Sistema Valero Reformado" (Foto 3).

I don't know which it was the pattern presented in Great Britain, but I show the grenades Ecia patented in it is time.

In the Photo 4 the mortar Ecia.

Gretting from Spain

Antonio

 

[Draoich]

Spanish 2 Inch Mortar

Hi,
Has anyone got a photo of the actual Ecia Mortar or even of the early model British 2 Inch Mortar (I understand that this had a more elaborate base-plate than the later model)?
Thanks,
Draoich