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Turkey aicraft bombs cca 1939

AKON_

Well-Known Member
Photo of Turkeiy (TAF) aerial bombs.

cca. 1939
Source : When I find the page where the photos come from, I'll post a link..
TB1.jpg
TB1b.jpg
TB2a.jpgTB2b.jpg

As always, there are a lot of questions about it, for example:
-The name of the regulation, the date of issue, which deals with these bombs ..
-What were the weights of the bombs and the suspension system and which planes had this vertical suspension system..
-To the fuze of these bombs...
Tb6.jpg

Tb4.jpg

Akon
 
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Akon, Hi!
There is already a thread where these photos and other were uploaded
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/92857-Turkish-Bombs-1937-1939?highlight=Turkish

The whole issue of the Turkish bombs produced by the Sakir Zumre factories in the 20s and 30s is complex as it is obstructed by a lot of "urban legends" and "political recuperation" in the environment of present days Turkish politics.
A few years ago a book was published in Turkey (in Turkish) by the a Turkish historian named Atila Oral - with a lot of "problematic" information inside but it included scans from the original Sakir Zumre bomb catalog from 1938. The book is sadly out of print and I have been unable to put a hand on a copy though I tried very hard (and keep trying) to do so. I tried to get into contact with author but sadly he died suddenly one year ago, at a relatively young age.
sakir-zumre20130901155035.jpg
A Turkish contact sent me scans of the relevant pages but they are of low quality and do not enable to read the mensurations of the bombs or most details of the text. However the drawings show details of the bombs and the fuzes and are worth it:
1) 6kg incendiary
6kg  Incendiary (yanan bombasi).jpg

2) 6kg flare (a copy of a ww1 Italian flare):
6kg Flare Bomb (tenvir bombasi).jpg

3) 10kg HE
10kg HE  Bomb.jpg

4) 50kg SAP
50kg SAP (lagim bombasi).jpg

5) 100kg SAP
100kg SAP (lagim bombasi).jpg

6) 300kg SAP
300kg SAP (lagim bombasi).jpg

7) ? probably 100 HE

9.jpg

Better Resolution photographs from this book:
0B06D950-9595-11ED-8B7F-0AFB5EC84207.jpg ED4974D6-9594-11ED-84D8-12ED3FC46AF5.jpg07f8eae6_o.jpege838ec0d7961c2d2ef8c622eb8549202.jpg330d5701_o.jpeg 10.jpg12.jpg6.jpg67.jpg

and from other sources (Turkish antique auctions and similar):
3BBDDE36-9595-11ED-B700-0E0DBF7EE043.jpg6df57b44_o.jpegBreguet_19_3.jpgBreguet_19_4.jpg

Fuzes:

1) 10kg Nose Fuze

10kg HE  Bomb (tahrip bombasi) Fuze  (tapasi).jpg

10kg HE  Bomb (tahrip bombasi) Fuze Section.jpg

2) 50kg Nose Fuze
50kg HE  Bomb (tahrip bombasi) Fuze .jpg
50kg HE  Bomb (tahrip bombasi) Fuze Section.jpg

3) 100kg Nose Fuse

100kg HE  Bomb (tahrip bombasi) Fuze (tapasi).jpg
100kg HE  Bomb (tahrip bombasi) Fuze Section.jpg

3) 100kg Base Fuse
100kg HE  Bomb (tahrip bombasi) Base Fuze Section.jpg
4) 300kg Base Fuse
300kg HE  Bomb (tahrip bombasi) Base Fuze Section .jpg


The 50kg and 100kg existed in nHE and SAP variants
The 300kg in SAP and apparently also AP variants

The main problem of these bombs was the fins: aimed at giving a spinning effect they suffered from the inherent problem of this system - the deformation of the fins during the fall (and seeing the photographs during their stocking too!) The tentative to add a reinforcing circle (similar to the patent on the Swedish Bofors bombs of the time) do not appear to have been really successful, as it was too flimsy built. The huge solid collar seen at the base of the fins on one of the last bombs (probably the 300kg AP) seems to have been also aimed at solving this problem. However these bombs were ill-fated, produced at a time where planes began to fly faster and higher, thence high torsion moments on the fins of spinning bombs that provokes their rupture during the fall - even the anti-torsion pattern installed on Bofors/Tolfvan bombs was not really a success and led to the end of the use of this system.
In addition the new planes bought in the late thirties by thr Turkish Air Force came with their own supplies of bombs:
US M30 series of bombs for the Martin W139 and the Vultee V-11, British GP series for the Fairey Battle and German B1, Sc 10, Sc50 and Sc250 for the He111
These last German bombs were even produced in Turkey by the factory established by Nuri Kiligil (the brother of Enver Pasha and an active agent of Nazi Germany in Turkey)
2c14d4a4_o.jpeg8dea0986de3c560f7443436d95aa4ce4.jpg

Vulltee V-11 with US M30 series bomb

4cc423aad2bd1db66a856a6682aac3161.jpg


If soemeone has more details on the dimensions of these bombs, please post - same if you have a copy of the book by Atilla Oral or the original Zumre catalog and can make better scans (BTW the books seems to have been distributed to almost every public library in the main cities of Turkey, so if someone passes through Istanbul Izmir or Ankara with a good cell phone camera...:angel:).
 
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Hi Dreamk
I didn't notice the thread, thanks for the navigation. I have a problem with sewing :)
...In one photo, I noticed an interesting feature of the Turkish SC 50 that the German SC 50 designs do not have...
Akon
 
The Turkish Flare (Left) versus its original italian model ("Proietto Illuminante de Nuovo Tipo) (Right):
6kg Flare Bomb (tenvir bombasi).jpg WW1 Italian Flare (Proietto illuminante de buovo tipo 2 .4kg 4000 candles).jpeg
Though inspired by the Italian one, the Turkish flare was larger and heavier than the Italian one (6kg vs 2.4kg), offering much better illumination (300.000 candles for 3min instead of the original mere 4.000.candles) - for comparison the British British Flare, 4.5 inch Reconnaissance produced between 175.000 to 250.000 candles, while the British Flare, 5.5 inch Reconnaissance produced 1.000.000 candles
 
Hi Dreamk
It is possible to measure flares with each other, it's about what the evaluation parameters will be.
If one evaluation parameter is luminosity, and the other evaluation parameter is the speed of descent, it will probably be possible to compare different flare designs with each other.
Then there are general structural solutions that have some advantages and sometimes disadvantages.
At that time, the use of flares was for bombing and photography...
----------------------------
After the tests, it was necessary to better solve the marking of the target at night, having only a flare on the parachute, which quickly changed coordinates in the wind, and the bombing was extremely imprecise. The solution was found in the form of "Avigační puma "
In our Skoda "Avigační puma " was developed, which was supposed to mark a target for bombing at night.
It had a design that was half for lighting and half for fragmentation (nose impact fuze).
So bombing at night was solved by this..

Akon.
 
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It seems they got one second hand copy of a signed first edition. It's worth checking if the info is updated and whether they are ready to send abroad.
The site is not a bookseller but a rare books dealer platform contracting with private sellers or other second hand booksellers. My precedent trials with such platform were not positive, but one may never know....
 
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