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UK law and deactivated guns

A

Arddu

Member
Hi all,

I have been offered an old ww2 gun, totally rusted solid, worthless to some but i was thinking of trying to restore it (i love taking things appart :D).

the only problem is, i don't poses a firearms license. if i were to restore it, can i deactivate it myself by removing some key components, (firing pin etc) and still store it in my gun safe, or will i need to apply for a license before even thinking of accepting the offer?

thanks
 
You cannot deactivate a gun yourself and call it legally deactivated. It must be done by a Proof House who should provide evidence that it is legally deactivated.

If you attempt to alter it in any way you may be breaking the law.

What sort of weapon is it?

Have a perusal on the WWII reenactors site, there is a section dedicated to Firearms and the VCR Bill, you might find what you need there.

http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=69
 
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Sounds nice. Don't be tempted mind! I am a police officer, and a few years back, we did this raid, can't remember what for but we came across a pretty nice guy who collected deactivated guns, I mean he had hundreds of them. All of them had certificates, but because we had entered the property executing a warrant, the guns had to be taken and proofed by Police firearms unit. Well, it turns out, one of the guns had drill marks to it somewhere....just one gun out of hundreds. The guy went to court on a charge of unlawfulinterference of a firearm (or something like that, not sure off the top of my head). Anyway, the court found him not guilty, BUT, bacuse there was still evidence of the offence, the court ordered that his whole collection be destroyed! Years of collecting gone because of something that had been attempted probably before he even got hold of it!

I would personaly be safe and get it professionaly done. I don't know how to go about this though.
I would be safe mate, dont want to lose your colection. I' sure the Police have no reason to go round your house anyway but location mistakes do occasionaly happen.
Anyway, what gun is it, sounds great to get a proper relic and to restore it yourself would be fantastic!
 
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De-activation

Hi Arddu
I moved from the UK to Norway in 1996 but have followed the changes in the law from over here.
Play it safe. If you really want the gun, call around and find a gunsmith close to you to get it done properly. If you take the chance and by some reason you are caught, as Pointblank states, you risk loosing everything. With the way they treat collectors they catch with something even slightly "iffy" it's not a situation you want to be in. Only wish they would put the same amount of work into catching the real bad guys on the street.
Targeting collectors doesnt make the world a safer place but it looks good in their rapports...

Good luck
T42
 
I don't think it's law that you must have a deact certificate, but the weapon must be deactivated to the standard required. Without the deact cert it's up to you to prove that the weapon is deactivated.
 
Hi,

you actually dont need a certificate but the item will be harder to sell without one and i think the proof marks added at the time of deactivation should [i think] show it has been deactivated.

Andy
 
Hi,
T clear up a few points,yes you can de-activate yourself(proof houses do not de-activate,they inspect,stamp and issue a certificate) but has to be done to the set out requirements,you will need more equipment than your average DIY tools,for example the pin that needs to secure the barrel to the breech has to hardened steel welded in place! Also it is ok to own a de-act without a certificate but has to have the proof house stamp on it.
Would be intresting to know what rifle you have,may be on an obsolete calibre ticket,which of course means that there is no proof ammunition at any of the proof houses(does not mean that there is no shooting ammo out there!) It will still have to be sent to a proof house for inspection,stamp & cert,but will be fully working without being "cut"(there are severe penalties for using a O/C for shooting)
Cheers
Tony
 
That horrifying story is a clear indication of how pathetic and ridiculous the laws are, made by people who have no idea what they are about. They are turning every "free democratic country" into a tyrannical police state.
I watched a show on BBC the other night, the person on the show stated that since 1997 there have been over 2,000 laws passed and all of them are aimed squarely at removing your rights, most of them at the insistence of the Police force ( I am not having a go at the Police force here just stating facts).
To think that hundreds of thousands of soldiers died maintaining the rights of free people, only to be ridiculed by the very people they fought for.
It makes me sick to my stomach. Who the heck are these politicans think they are defending the people from.
My Dad is turning in his grave, probably spinning in reality.

Enough said

Iain


pointblank0 said:
Sounds nice. Don't be tempted mind! I am a police officer, and a few years back, we did this raid, can't remember what for but we came across a pretty nice guy who collected deactivated guns, I mean he had hundreds of them. All of them had certificates, but because we had entered the property executing a warrant, the guns had to be taken and proofed by Police firearms unit. Well, it turns out, one of the guns had drill marks to it somewhere....just one gun out of hundreds. The guy went to court on a charge of unlawfulinterference of a firearm (or something like that, not sure off the top of my head). Anyway, the court found him not guilty, BUT, bacuse there was still evidence of the offence, the court ordered that his whole collection be destroyed! Years of collecting gone because of something that had been attempted probably before he even got hold of it!

I would personaly be safe and get it professionaly done. I don't know how to go about this though.
I would be safe mate, dont want to lose your colection. I' sure the Police have no reason to go round your house anyway but location mistakes do occasionaly happen.
Anyway, what gun is it, sounds great to get a proper relic and to restore it yourself would be fantastic!
Click to expand...
 
wow guys thanks for the info. The last thing I want to do is get into trouble with the law, as I already own (legally :p ) several shotguns and I dont want to lose them!

Although I think i may have indicated that the gun is in better condition that it realy is. ill try to get hold of some pics of it to show you just how bad it is, but to put it simply, no amount of work will make it safe to fire. anyone who tries is seriously going to get hurt. the loading/firing action is seased solid, the barrel is just a chunk of rust. the owner had been keeping it buried under a pile of scrap metal in a shed till i came accross it.

its bad condition was mainly why i was hoping i could keep it in the cabinet, and any police officer that saw it (during my yearly inspection) would use his common sense and see that it will never work again. i guess im wrong on that count?

i know its .22 however, i shall take a close look at the forums and the gun, and see if i can identify it for you guys!

thanks again

Arddu
 
Arddu said:
wow guys thanks for the info. The last thing I want to do is get into trouble with the law, as I already own (legally :p ) several shotguns and I dont want to lose them!

Although I think i may have indicated that the gun is in better condition that it realy is. ill try to get hold of some pics of it to show you just how bad it is, but to put it simply, no amount of work will make it safe to fire. anyone who tries is seriously going to get hurt. the loading/firing action is seased solid, the barrel is just a chunk of rust. the owner had been keeping it buried under a pile of scrap metal in a shed till i came accross it.

its bad condition was mainly why i was hoping i could keep it in the cabinet, and any police officer that saw it (during my yearly inspection) would use his common sense and see that it will never work again. i guess im wrong on that count?

i know its .22 however, i shall take a close look at the forums and the gun, and see if i can identify it for you guys!

thanks again

Arddu
Click to expand...

Most Police firearms inspectors are quite good and have common sense, but you never know, there are allsorts in the Police......believe it or not, there are some nice ones:tinysmile_classes_t
 
panther1 said:
That horrifying story is a clear indication of how pathetic and ridiculous the laws are, made by people who have no idea what they are about. They are turning every "free democratic country" into a tyrannical police state.
I watched a show on BBC the other night, the person on the show stated that since 1997 there have been over 2,000 laws passed and all of them are aimed squarely at removing your rights, most of them at the insistence of the Police force ( I am not having a go at the Police force here just stating facts).
To think that hundreds of thousands of soldiers died maintaining the rights of free people, only to be ridiculed by the very people they fought for.
It makes me sick to my stomach. Who the heck are these politicans think they are defending the people from.
My Dad is turning in his grave, probably spinning in reality.



Enough said

Iain
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you here. It's like when the pistol law was brought in. Has this led in a drop in gun crime? Er.....NO! maybe an increase! The only thing it has suceeded in doing is turning ligitimate pistol owners and pistol clubs into unhappy people.

Oh well, could be worse.....could be raining (though it is a bit cloudy where I am)
 
[
the loading/firing action is seased solid, the barrel is just a chunk of rust.

Hi again,

the first thing the Police or for that matter the guys who deactivate such things will ask is there a round still in the chamber? If the action is solid then how can this be confirmed or not and i think this is where you will have problems. If its a .22 as you say then perhaps its not actually worth all the costs of having it deactivated. An SMLE or other WW1 rifle then perhaps this is another matter. I would go for something a bit better. Just my pennorth for what its worth.

Andy
 
is there a round still in the chamber? If the action is solid then how can this be confirmed or not and i think this is where you will have problems
Click to expand...

strangely the action is seased OPEN. dont ask me why...but i can clearly see the end of the barrel that the round would be loaded into (breach?) im only guesing that it is .22 as i have seen many .22 rounds and that is the only one i can think of that would fit the breach.

Although I am now having second thoughts as to if i want to accept the gun. (offered to me as a gift) as I dont want to risk getting into trouble over it. yet sending a gun away and paying for it to be deactivated when it clearly isnt going to work in the first place seems a little pointless.

so i will mull it over and talk to some gun enthusiast friends and see what there take is on the situation. I will still get those pictures of the gun and post them here when i get home though, just to show what i mean, and hopfully someone knows just what it is. corrosion has left any serial numbers unreadable.

so stay tuned for pics :D

Arddu
 
Hi Arddu,
This piece of "info" may help you regarding relic rifles,some years ago I was taken to court for selling relic WWI rifles at Hugerford arcade(sensitive area I know), in court the police argued that although it was a relic it was technialy a fire arm,but the legeal term for a firearm is" that it is capable of discharging a projectile or shot", relics are not, so walked out of court with the case discharged and a chit to collect the relic rifles from the police station. Pointblank gave sound advice about firearms officers,unfortuantly it is useualy your average bobbie that comes across so called firearms offences and they don't know their bum from their elbow about it and it soon gets blown up over nothing.
Relic rifles are and I think will remain a grey area within the firearms act,just be carefull and make sure you know what you have.
All the best
Tony
 
Have you thought about contacting the local firearms Police and asking their advice?
 
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deactivated guns..

All firearms in the UK need a current UK spec certificate. The proof house places a stamp on the receiver, barrel and bolt, sometimes also the flash hider to proof it has been legally checked and certified.

Only section 1 - 5 firearms dealers can legally deactivate live firearms and submit them to the proofhouse on your behalf. Normally a deactivation with certificate costs approx 48.00

Any firearms sectioned or cut in half, rusted solid or found in the sea is still a firearms under UK laws till it's legally deactivated to current UK spec and certified by the London or Birmingham proofhouse.

Two .50 BMG's were found by a farmer end of last year, both rusted solid and they both had to be deactivated.

Better safe than sorry!
 
advice...

Local Police do not know anything regarding firearms as they are not trained correctly. Best bet will be to speak to your local firearms team who deal with firearms daily.






LCplCombat said:
Have you thought about contacting the local firearms Police and asking their advice?
Click to expand...
 
GermanMilitariaUK said:
Local Police do not know anything regarding firearms as they are not trained correctly. Best bet will be to speak to your local firearms team who deal with firearms daily.
Click to expand...

Each Police station should have an AFO assigned to it. The AFO will rarely be at the station at the time, but your details will be taken and you will end up being able to have a 1 on 1 probably via phone. They will be very glad to assist as most are very passionate about their skills. You will get 100% truth and 100% current legislation too.
Ask at your local nick next time you're passing.
 
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