United States MK 2 Practice

[inertordnance]

Attached are photos of an early blue body MK 2 Practice with M10 Fuze for reference / discussion.

Thanks and stay safe,

Frank

 

[inertordnance]

Also a photo of some various US MK 2 Practice Variations:

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Also a photo of some various US MK 2 Practice Variations:

Frank.......I'm stunned.......I will also add my early, and wartime practice variations to this thread for reference when I have recovered.

No, No.... Thanks Frank.... I do not need more pics, I've seen enough. :tinysmile_cry_t4:
Regards, Steve

I must relax now, and have a smoke and cocktail after this. I think it is after noon.
:smokin:

 

[inertordnance]

I must relax now, and have a smoke and cocktail after this. I think it is after noon.
:smokin:

Hey, Steve,

LOL! Go ahead as it is after noon somewhere!

Thanks again,

Frank

 

[MissingSomething]

MkII Practice

Found one as well sold to me as a M21.... has a M10A3 fuze....

Also found another one painted silver.. M10 fuze as well but may be a A1 or A2 as it has "ears"...

 

[Grenademan2005]

All the M21 practice has RFX marked on body and new fuze M205A1 or A2. Yours is an MKII Practice grenade. Also the "ears" feature is commonly found in M10A3 fuzes, but maybe late M10A2 fuzes can be found with this improve too.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

All the M21 practice has RFX marked on body and new fuze M205A1 or A2. Yours is an MKII Practice grenade. Also the "ears" feature is commonly found in M10A3 fuzes, but maybe late M10A2 fuzes can be found with this improve too.

Hello Miguel, No, this is not correct. Not all M21's were marked RFX.
RFX is Richmond Foundries company. Yes, these are legitimate M21 US training grenades. They are post- war.

Here is a pic of my M21 from 1944. It is completely original. If you notice the can has 1944 date, M21, and "unknown" lot number. The M21 designation was first used in 1944, so this must be one of the first M21's.

This M21 grenade I show is a fairly rare grenade, but not as rare as Franks. :tinysmile_grin_t: Franks is also an Early WWI grenade body.
My trainer is a very early 40 segment WWI body that was re-used. If look carefully at this grenade compared to other "pineapples"....you can see the bottom is very narrow, and the top segments are very rounded. This M21 and Franks in the first post are the same WWI bodies marked "T"

So this means some of the first WW2 M21's were re-used HE pineapple bodies they had on hand. This is the only one I have seen like this, and also it has a very odd-strange blue color. I will be interested to see what other members have in there collection, and any other info they have.

UPDATE: 8-2010... I have found and added another M21 with exact markings and date 8-44 on the can to my collection. It is the same darker blue, but is a WWII era "Crane" "2" marked body with just a hole on bottom. Search my other posts for pics.

Regards, Steve

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Hey, Steve,

LOL! Go ahead as it is after noon somewhere!

Thanks again,

Frank

:beer: :smokin: :vollkommenauf:

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Found one as well sold to me as a M21.... has a M10A3 fuze....

Also found another one painted silver.. M10 fuze as well but may be a A1 or A2 as it has "ears"...

Hi missing something, your grenades are WW2 trainers. Here is what I have learned I will share with you, and the forum. These bodies you show were originally threaded bottom HE grenades, that have had the threads bored out to remove them.

If you notice your grenade bodies, the one I show below, and many
blue trainers you will see have the hole on the bottom that are "slightly off center" and the edge of the hole has a "chamfer" cut. The holes are also not perfectly round, and sometimes you can see some remaining threads.

This is what I have learned, seen, and heard, but I welcome others opinions.
These also could be an M21 grenade theoretically speaking.

Regards, Steve

 

[Grenademan2005]

Im only agree with what I can read on your pot, Steve, cause Im not sure that that blue grenade were originally inside of that pot, with that colour, that cork and that spoon. I will post some pics of what I have. Email me, we have to talk about items from East. :tinysmile_grin_t:

 

[Grenademan2005]

Promised pics. I already had these ones, I will shot some new ones.

 

[Grenademan2005]

Fresh pics. The three grenades on the last one are early red practice converted to a combat ones. I say "early" because practice colour was changed to blue from red before the start of WWII. I dont remember exactly this last info, (when), so if Im wrong refresh my brain, please.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Im only agree with what I can read on your pot, Steve, cause Im not sure that that blue grenade were originally inside of that pot, with that colour, that cork and that spoon. I will post some pics of what I have. Email me, we have to talk about items from East. :tinysmile_grin_t:

Ola Miguel......I think this odd blue grenade is the original color. I think it is such an early M21, (pot does not even have lot number) that could have been a shade they used early production. If you look close in hand, it has many runs, and tons of tiny debris and dust etc. in the paint, no odor etc. Considering the condition, and rarity of the "pot", the grenade condition seems to match...just a strange color shade. Maybe someone will show another similar sometime. This will be good to find out.

The cork I put in for the picture, to show what WWII trainers looked like with the cork. This is how they used them in WW2. The cork did not come with grenade, although it is an original WW2 cork. :tinysmile_grin_t: The cork was given to me, and I watched it being taken from the war dated smaller "pot" or "can" that they were shipped in. Unfortunately he would not give me the small black powder cloth packet charge also :sad:

The fuse is not what came on it, there was no fuze. It is a correct fuze for a practice grenade though.

Regards, Steve

 

[Grenademan2005]

Check your email box, Steve. I want to close our pending things.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Fresh pics. The three grenades on the last one are early red practice converted to a combat ones. I say "early" because practice colour was changed to blue from red before the start of WWII. I dont remember exactly this last info, (when), so if Im wrong refresh my brain, please.

Ola Miguel, nice pics once again. Even though I only collect pre-45, the post war M21's look nice.

I was just correcting you about "all" M21's being RFX marked bodies. They were introduced in 44 as far as I know......but then I could be wrong.

I like your "early" red trainers re-painted for wartime....I have one too, except is still has the cut back short spoon fuze here is pics........

I am not sure of date when the color changed from red to blue, it was sometime in late 30's, I think most probably 1936-8. Franks is dated 1939, and that is a very early blue grenade.

Regards, Steve

yes...I will e-mail about the east Miguel

 

[Eodtek]

Found one as well sold to me as a M21.... has a M10A3 fuze....

Also found another one painted silver.. M10 fuze as well but may be a A1 or A2 as it has "ears"...

Yes, that is an M21 and it is distinguished from the MK II practice by the frag pattern.

If you compare the M21 to the MK II you will see that the M21 has a slightly rounded frag pattern (which is exaggerated in the "novelty" bodies being seen in abundance online and at Army Navy stores).

You can expect to find M21 practice grenades with the M10A2, M10A3, M205A1 or M205A2 fuze.

As for finding "RFX" on a grenade body. Yes, it is commonly found on M21 bodies but can also be found on MK II practice and yes, even MK II HE bodies as Richmond Foundry made all 3 at one time.

 

[Grenademan2005]

But the question is how you can see that it is a M21 grenade if it has the M10 series fuze? For me this is a MKII practice. So, when they changed to M21 came the grenade still was the same than the MKII practice? Only the cardboard pot has stenciled the M21, is this the difference?
I have never seen a real blue practice with rounded frag pattern without the RFX marks.

 

[Eodtek]

But the question is how you can see that it is a M21 grenade if it has the M10 series fuze? For me this is a MKII practice. So, when they changed to M21 came the grenade still was the same than the MKII practice? Only the cardboard pot has stenciled the M21, is this the difference?

The fuze isn't the determining factor in if it is a MK II or an M21, the body of the grenade is. I'd have to do some deep digging to find the reference but from my recollection, the M21 replaced the MK II due to the cost. if you look at the M21, the frag is not as defined. This is becuse they changed the way the grenade was being manufactured. The production of the M21 required less QA inspections and the cast iron used is of a lower quality.

While I've never seen it stated anywhere, I would suspect that the reason the hole in the bottom of the M21 is larger than the hole in the MK II practice is due to the fact that the M21 body is designed to be reusable. The MK II Practice body is nothing more than a MK II HE body that was pulled from the line before the bottom was threaded. When used as a practice grenade you had to poke around quite a bit to remove the remainder of the igniter shell that was left inside the body after functioning. By redesigning the casting on the M21, they were able to make the hole in the bottom bigger which allowed for greater ease in removing the remains of the igniter shell.

I have never seen a real blue practice with rounded frag pattern without the RFX marks.

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I was told flat out that Richmond foundry never made the MK II body and only made practice bodies. I have 2 MK II HE bodies with RFX clearly stamped in them. The gov't contract records for that period are not complete so it makes it difficult to say if anyone other than Richmond Foundry was contracted to manufacture the M21 body. They also manufactured the M30 body but again I haven't been able to dig up any info on that contract.

 

[Grenademan2005]

But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I was told flat out that Richmond foundry never made the MK II body and only made practice bodies. I have 2 MK II HE bodies with RFX clearly stamped in them. The gov't contract records for that period are not complete so it makes it difficult to say if anyone other than Richmond Foundry was contracted to manufacture the M21 body. They also manufactured the M30 body but again I haven't been able to dig up any info on that contract.

Of course, Man. You will never read from me that an item doesnt exist because I have never seen one. I just mean what I said, I never have seen one without the RFX marks and rounded frag pattern. :tinysmile_shy_t:

 

[Eodtek]

Of course, Man. You will never read from me that an item doesnt exist because I have never seen one. I just mean what I said, I never have seen one without the RFX marks and rounded frag pattern. :tinysmile_shy_t:

The law of averages says that there has to be at least one. I can't recall if I have seen one or not. I was at our academy earlier this week and they have a garbage can filled with grenade bodies that I will be sorting through in June when I am back down there.

If I do find one I will post the pics.