Unknown shell cases, possibly from Romania

[Hoeksel]

Today I got 2 really nice shell cases that are not listed in my shell case dimensions literature. I believe the cases are Romanian; I also have a 75x350R case with comparable markings. (Now that I have found METROM as a Romanian ammunition factory, I am sure they are indeed Romanian).

Cases 1:

47x343R66.5 mm
47-5A (47 mm gun)
[logo] - 10 - 42 (manufactured by unknown factory, october 1942)
CR Cc-D (I find this on my 75x350R case, meaning unknown)
Primer: 19 42

Romania had 2 47 mm AT-guns:
- Bohler M1935 --> I have shell cases from Austria, Italy, Netherlands...they are clearly different
- Breda M1935 --> I do not know what case goes with this gun

Case 2:

100x241R115 mm
100-35-36 (100 mm M1935/1936?)
87 - 40 (LOT 87, 1940)
Several logo's and METROM (METROM is a metallurgic company in Romania)
No primer

Romania had several 100 mm artillery:
- Skoda M1916/1919 howitzer
- Skoda M1930 howitzer
- Skoda M1934 howitzer
- Skoda M1916 mountain gun

Questions:

- Who is the manufacturer CR?
- What does Cc-D mean?
- What guns go with both cases?
- Any other cases known?

 

[Mircea87]

Romania also had a 47 mm Schneider mle 1936/39 AT gun. The AT gun was licensed built at Concordia factories, near Ploiesti, together with the 47 mm ammo.

 

[Hoeksel]

Thanks! Do you know the meaning of any of the markings?

 

[2pounder]

Could your CR be GR? for G Roth.

 

[Alpini]

Could your CR be GR? for G Roth.

no, The Georg Roth factory was bought by Hirtenberger after in the 1930s. The case is stamped 1942 so it must be a romanian factory sign. Interested persons of austrian ammuition industry history should read the following highly interesting document:

http://www.hirtenberger.at/media/pub/HP_Festschrift_Web.pdf

 

[charley777]

Greetings.....
Interestingly there's a Swiss M-41 AT round in my lists:- 47x343R but with a 63.5mm rim (if the listing is correct)
I have also seen it listed at 47x340R so who has an M-41 case that they can measure to clarify this question?

 

[EOD]

The one I measured was 47x338R.

 

[charley777]

OK thanks for that, EOD, i'll adjust my listings.

 

[Hoeksel]

I was able to get the Romanian manual for the Skoda M34 10 cm howitzer. The documentation has verified the 10 cm Romanian case in my collection is indeed for this gun! Let's hope I find a Romanian manual for a 47 mm gun.

 

[Mannlicher]

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/81128-47mm-Böhler-shell my 47mm example. Hopefully i'll find a good 10cm one this summer, until now those who showed up at fairs were damaged... Nice examples, congrats! And thanks for the image scans, i've saved them for future reference

 

[Jan Hal]

I was able to get the Romanian manual for the Skoda M34 10 cm howitzer. The documentation has verified the 10 cm Romanian case in my collection is indeed for this gun! Let's hope I find a Romanian manual for a 47 mm gun.

Do not you please more oo marking the Romanian artillery ammunition?

 

[Hoeksel]

Hello Jan, I do not understand what you mean.

 

[Jan Hal]

I need a manual for Romanian artillery ammunition.

 

[Hoeksel]

Well, you are not the only one! I hope for Romanian artillery manuals as well, I have no others than the 100 mm Skoda manual posted here.

 

[YanTaylor]

Hi everyone, I noticed the discussion about Romanian 47mm ATGs and I have three in my data;


Tunul Antitanc 4.7cm, Mod. 1935 (Bohler) 47x235R
Tunul Antitanc 4.7cm, Mod. 1936 (Schneider) 47x380R
Tunul Antitanc 4.7cm, Mod. 1939 (Breda) 47x235R

Yan

 

[Hoeksel]

I have found several 47x343R cases from Romania, I still do not know what they are.

 

[YanTaylor]

Hello Hoeksel


I have checked a few sites and the only 47x343R I can find in relation to Romania has diameter of 66.5mm, one site said it was used by the Schneider M1936 ATG, but I thought the 47mm Puteaux used a 47x380, so maybe Schneider used a different size.
Having said that I am sure the Czechs used a 47x343R round.


Yan.

 

[Hoeksel]

Czech case is 47x343R64 and my Romanian case is 47x343R66.5. Do you have a link for information on the Schneider M1936? I do know a French made 47x343R case exists but I have no rim diameter.

 

[YanTaylor]

Hi Hoeksel, there is not much data knocking around about the Schneider m36, but here is a wiki site, and a discussion I had a few years ago about the model 1936, plus some 4.7cm ammo data, check out this site as Tony Williams knows his stuff;


https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tun_antitanc_Schneider_calibru_47_mm_model_1936
http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=6058
[FONT=&quot]http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/ammotable6.html


Yan
[/FONT]

 

[YanTaylor]

[FONT=&quot]Hoeksel, what data do you have on the Romanian 10cm mod.34 howitzer, the only data I can find is that it resembles the Skoda 10cm 14/19, which I think is wrong, do you have any specs?

Yan.
[/FONT]