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US Army electronic flash bang grenade
- Thread starter kradman
- Start date
That is yet another piece of fiction written about grenades.
SAWES was a British training package from Centronic Ltd, Croydon, designed to simulate hits from bullets and grenade fragments. It was developed with the SAWES infantryman's training harness which had a number of 1cm[SUP]2[/SUP] .9-micron IR photodetectors placed at key points over the body to detect lethal and incapacitating "hits".
Yes, British. A component of the British SAWES training package from Centronic.
The fiction is that it is American; fiction that it was something to do with the British in Berlin; fiction that it was laser light and sound.
Admittedly it did use several IR 5W peak power laser diodes to transmit a string of fast IR pulses to simulate fragmentation, but no visible light. The photo shows the last remaining laser diode from a batch of ITT diodes that I was using back in 1980 for another SAWES project...
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The information Mike gave me was that it was only deployed with a training establishment in Berlin for British infantry. So, if that is wrong it's not my invention, but possibly the only information Mike had at the time. Perhaps someone else can help us out with that information?
There are certainly very few of these grenades around. Mike had two but the OP's one is the only other one I've seen.
There are certainly very few of these grenades around. Mike had two but the OP's one is the only other one I've seen.
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Have found a note in Mike Saffery's grenade paperwork.
"Grenade, Practice, Small Arms Weapons Effect Simulator. 2-year Limited Trials Approval for Berlin Infantry Brigade only from February 1990. Available with No. 3 Mech or with the one shown (separate photo). Used a small pyrotechnic cartridge to give sound and flash".
The source was a well respected member of this forum.
"Grenade, Practice, Small Arms Weapons Effect Simulator. 2-year Limited Trials Approval for Berlin Infantry Brigade only from February 1990. Available with No. 3 Mech or with the one shown (separate photo). Used a small pyrotechnic cartridge to give sound and flash".
The source was a well respected member of this forum.
The one shown below went for around £200 I recollect on Quick Fire about a year or so ago.
The page in post No.2 is, I understand, from Janes Infantry Weapons 1986. Development of the SAWES system goes back to at least 1979, with suggested laser transmitters for the SLR, the GPMG and a hand grenade. The SLR and GPMG used a Blank Firing Attachment for the sound and recoil (gas operation) of the weapons and the grenade a small pyrotechnic charge for sound and flash.
The page in post No.2 is, I understand, from Janes Infantry Weapons 1986. Development of the SAWES system goes back to at least 1979, with suggested laser transmitters for the SLR, the GPMG and a hand grenade. The SLR and GPMG used a Blank Firing Attachment for the sound and recoil (gas operation) of the weapons and the grenade a small pyrotechnic charge for sound and flash.
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Except that it wasn't.
For information on how the SAWES system worked with the SLR and then the SA80, the following Rifleman website is helpful:
https://www.rifleman.org.uk/SAWES_training_system.html
https://www.rifleman.org.uk/SAWES_training_system.html
There were two (to my knowledge) US grenades used with the MILES system. Not actually used as a grenade, but as training pieces at the National Training Center (NTC Ft. Irwin) back in the early 90s. They were part of a series of ordnance items intended to teach troops to not pick up UXO. Various switches (mercury, etc) would function a special flash bulb incorporated in the munition and subsequently trip the offending troops MILES gear, "killing" them. In some cases these used modified actual munition bodies, for others they were custom built. It included the M42 submunition, two designs of Rockeye submunitions, an M74 / BLU-63 submunition and an M16 bounding mine.
The early design of the grenade was an amber translucent plastic, replaced by a green body. I am at work and don't have any good single photos, but here is a shelf shot with the amber one right side up, the green one upside down. The program didn't last long, the items would be taken out by exercise personnel in advance and placed in exercise areas for troops to randomly discover. A number would subsequently be lost, others would be recovered by troops who, after being killed, would claim ignorance of why they were killed and pocket the items.
I was working a commercial UXO contract at Ft. Irwin during the period when the program was dropped. Boxes of the training aids had been dropped off with the EOD team for disposal by detonation, I was given free access as anything I ended up with they didn't have to haul out to the range. I kept one of each item except for some reason I didn't take one of the mines.
The early design of the grenade was an amber translucent plastic, replaced by a green body. I am at work and don't have any good single photos, but here is a shelf shot with the amber one right side up, the green one upside down. The program didn't last long, the items would be taken out by exercise personnel in advance and placed in exercise areas for troops to randomly discover. A number would subsequently be lost, others would be recovered by troops who, after being killed, would claim ignorance of why they were killed and pocket the items.
I was working a commercial UXO contract at Ft. Irwin during the period when the program was dropped. Boxes of the training aids had been dropped off with the EOD team for disposal by detonation, I was given free access as anything I ended up with they didn't have to haul out to the range. I kept one of each item except for some reason I didn't take one of the mines.