Vietnam mini flechettes

[dano1917]

Here are some Vietnam mini flechettes that just came in. Thy are pictured next to a US 25cent piece for size idea. I was told they were used both in 12ga shot gun shells and artillery shells. I would like to rig up a blow-gun and shoot them at some of the obnoxious neighbor kids....Dano

 

[Speedy]

Hi

. I was told they were used both in 12ga shot gun shells and artillery shells.

There was also some types of flechette warheads for 2,75" FFAR rocket.

 

[dano1917]

better snap

I took a much better snapshot of these mini flechettes next to a 12ga scatter gun shell for size comparison. these are very cool litle darts...Dano

 

[Darren]

Nice little items there Dano, I've seen similar for sale before and often been tempted to buy some.

Thanks for showing

Darren

 

[banksy-2k10]

hi dano great stuff ! since this post i manged to get 10 five 5 intch and 5 one and a half intch all for under 5 pounds ! thanks!

 

[dano1917]

hi dano great stuff ! since this post i manged to get 10 five 5 intch and 5 one and a half intch all for under 5 pounds ! thanks!

Hi Banksy. I sure would like to see pictures of your flechettes if you could post that would be awesome, I think they are cool ordnance items and ridicoulously inexpensive. Would like to make a sub collection (pun not intended) of different Vietnam era sub darts. The whole sub-munition catagory freakin' fascinates me..... Best...Dano

 

[EODGUY]

Dano,

By the looks of your flechette I doubt that it was loaded in a 12 ga. shotshell. It is not the right length. You can see from my photo that the flechette loaded in the shotshell is very short, about 1 inch in length. The shotshell shown is one of those with the flechette loading with a window cut in it to show the pusher plate and the white foam pellet matrix surrounding the flechettes. There was also a green plastic casing that I know of and there may be more. Also in the photo is a flechette from the 105mm APERS projectile for comparison. Without knowing the exact size and weight of yours it is hard to tell, but it looks like yours may be from a 105mm. That flechette is about 1 1/2 inches long. Also included is one of the layers of flechettes from a 105mm projectile with and without the aluminum skirt around the outside. Each layer had a steel pusher plate and the flechettes were sewn together with two continual threads in a nose to tail pattern. Once fired the thread borke apart and the flechettes all oriented themselves in the air to fly point first. This turning also aided in creating a wider dispersion pattern. The final photo is one I have posted before of part of my flechette collection. They are a fascinating study, but very little information exists on them unfortunately.

 

[dano1917]

Dano,

By the looks of your flechette I doubt that it was loaded in a 12 ga. shotshell. It is not the right length. You can see from my photo that the flechette loaded in the shotshell is very short, about 1 inch in length. The shotshell shown is one of those with the flechette loading with a window cut in it to show the pusher plate and the white foam pellet matrix surrounding the flechettes. There was also a green plastic casing that I know of and there may be more. Also in the photo is a flechette from the 105mm APERS projectile for comparison. Without knowing the exact size and weight of yours it is hard to tell, but it looks like yours may be from a 105mm. That flechette is about 1 1/2 inches long. Also included is one of the layers of flechettes from a 105mm projectile with and without the aluminum skirt around the outside. Each layer had a steel pusher plate and the flechettes were sewn together with two continual threads in a nose to tail pattern. Once fired the thread borke apart and the flechettes all oriented themselves in the air to fly point first. This turning also aided in creating a wider dispersion pattern. The final photo is one I have posted before of part of my flechette collection. They are a fascinating study, but very little information exists on them unfortunately.

Thanks a bunch EODGUY. Certainly a fascinating facet to ordnance collecting. One (me anyway) gets "the creeps" when I imagine the dispersion and the nastiness of the effect of a loaded 105mm projectile. you can run but you can't hide. Interesting write-up and I thank you for that..Best....Dano

 

[V40]

Bob,

Thanks for the info on these "Pins with Fins". In Vietnam when it came to to having a Fire Base about to being over-runned by the VC or the NVA or both, was it is it or was it Policy to launch some kind of colored flare to let everybody else (IE. our troops) there to get down tight in their hole?

I have at least 5-6 pounds of these flechettes which are about 1" in size. They were at first rolled up into what appeard to be about the size for a 105mm gun. Can you tell me if you know any other arty pieces that had these in their inventory? I know they were packed into the 2.75 rockets.

I have seen pictures of the enemy with their AK's and SKS's pinned to their chest. Remarkable photos to say the least!

 

[Jolly Green]

I've heard the call of "Beehive" went out when the arty was being lowered.
There is a guy on eBay selling them still "belted."
EODGUY that is one awsome display board.

 

[dano1917]

Ginormous WW1 flechette darts

From World War One there were large scary looking flechettes, not a sub munition per se but dropped from aeroplanes into the trenches. I have not seen one in a long while so cannot give the dimensions but they were large, scary and lethal....Dano

 

[Jolly Green]

Lazy Dogs?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=212479499

 

[dano1917]

Yeah John, Lazy dogs but huge..........Dano

 

[Slick]

Here's a 2.75" rocket warhead. I'll find my "spool" of flechettes later and add that picture. Not sure what it came out of. Maybe this rocket warhead. And yea, these things put a hurtin' on folks downrange. Wicked.

Rick

 

[dano1917]

Here's a 2.75" rocket warhead. I'll find my "spool" of flechettes later and add that picture. Not sure what it came out of. Maybe this rocket warhead. And yea, these things put a hurtin' on folks downrange. Wicked.

Rick

Hey Rick, how goes it. Would love to see the snap of yout flechette spool as these things are beginning to pique my interest. Guess I need to find a few Vietnam lazy dogs to display with the mini darts. So much ordnance so little time. Just finished my Arkansas steak sandwich, gonna slam a couple of frostys and hit the hay..Brst...Dano

 

[Slick]

Ok, here's my bundle. It's just a little over 2.9"(75mm ). So, obviously not for the rocket. And, it may not be complete from the looks of the loose threads.

Rick

 

[fotomanx]

My Darts

Here are my Darts.
Can anyone identify it ?

1) Lenghst: 129 mm
Diameter: 3,5 mm
Fin. Diam.: 9,2 mm

2) Lazzy Dog

3) Lenghst: 38 mm
Diameter: 2 mm
Fin. Diam.: 5,2 mm

4) Lenghst: 27 mm
Diameter: 1,8 mm
Fin. Diam.: 4,3 mm

Has anyone other Modells of Darts or a Shot Shell Cartridge and a 5,56 ( .223 ) with it for sale?

Regards Peter

 

[EODGUY]

I don't know about any warning given to friendly troops before a Beehive round was fired. Never was around when one was fired. I just got called in after the fact to clear ordnance from the pin cushions that used to be bodies. There were two loadings of flechettes in the 152mm Sheridan combustible cased round. The XM625 Canister which had a flat nosed cylindrical projectile that contained 9,400 of the 13 gr. flechettes, packed in 5 layers. The round weighed 48 pounds with 41.8 pounds of that being the projectile. Overall length was 19.3 inches. The combustible cartridge case was the XM157, with 6 pounds of either the M26 or M26A1 propellant charge and the XM91E1 electric primer.
The other round was the XM617 and I have attached some photos of my cutaway. It had the same weights, but was 27 inches long. It contained about 8,000 of the 13 gr. flechettes. The XM618 projectile had an aluminum body with a sintered iron rotating band. There was also a tracer present. It used the XM599 mechanical time fuze and it was issued set for muzzle action (MA on the fuze body), meaning it functioned immediately in front of the weapon. It could be set for distance functioning from 200 meters to about 3,800 meters. If set for distance points, the fuze would function about 137 meters prior to the setting distance, which provided the optimum payload dispersion distance for the payload of flechettes at the set distance. Set at muzzle action the round produced arc widths ranging from 7 meters at 50 meters from the muzzle to 40 meters at 300 meters from the muzzle. On distance settings arc widths of 18 meters at the near edge of the taget to 59 meters at 300 meters from the near edge of the target. This pattern was the same from ranges of 200 meters out to maximum range. The case, propellant charge and primer were the same as the XM625.

 

[HAZORD]

Bob (EODGuy),

I'm wondering about the internals of your XM617 round. In the 105G, 105H, 90G, and 106RR rounds, the fuze fuctioning opens the ogive and fires into a base charge to push the layers of flechettes forward. Your round has the dets to open the ogive, but instead of a tube down the middle to a base charge, it had the differing diameter cylinders and no base charge. What exactly happens when the fuze functions?

 

[EODGUY]

The XM617 functions almost in the reverse of a standard flechette or canister round as far as dispersing the flechettes. The fuzes starts to arm immediately upon firing and will function at the predetermined setting. When the fuze functions, the flash from the fuze detonator ignites four XM86 detonators located 90 degrees apart and perpendicular to the axis of the projectile body. They are all up against the aluminum projectile ogive. The explosive force of the large detonators tears open the projectile body and rotational centrifugal force begins to disperse the flechettes. Kind of hard to comprehend, but the entire flechette payload is dispersed within several milliseconds of fuze functioning. This is one of those somewhat hard to believe designs, but I can attest first-hand that it worked and worked well. Bob