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Vulcans and relatives.

SG500

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
No I'm not talking about the planet Vulcan that the Victorians never managed to find but to the humble 20mm Vulcan round that so many of us have had examples of in our collections. They so often end up in collections because there are loads out there and with the exceptions of the rare experimental types they're usually cheap. Unlike many collectors I've always found them interesting pieces so thought I'd show a few examples of the variations that are out there to be found.

The story goes that in 1939 the US army developed a .60 calibre anti tank cartridge. Early in the WW2 the engineers anticipated a need for a machine gun heavier than the .50 Browning and began to work on a .60 calibre gun that could fire a 1200 grain projectile at 3500 fps. The round was later necked down to .50 calibre and achieved a velocity of 3900 fps. Later on it was necked up to 20mm and became known as the .60/20 and fired a 1500 grain projectile at 3300 fps.
This later became the M50 series. It was built in several countries with dozens of different projectiles.
While the USAF in conjunction with the US Army was developing the M39 revolver and M61 Gatling runs to fire the M50 series of ammunition the Navy was working on its own aircraft gun designs. A twin barrel revolver designated Mk 11 was being developed and work was continuing on the Hispano-Suiza design, a new high performance variation known as of the Mk 12. In an effort to get the maximun case volume within the size constraints of the Hispano-Suiza receiver they utilised the case diameter of the calibre .60 and the length of the Hispano-Suiza or M90 series. This resulted in the Mk 100 series.
There were of course variations. Frank Marquardt developed for the American Navy Airforce a weapon that fired the 20 x 102 RG round, the cartridges were shot from a container having an electric primer in a much reduced head, a specially designed driving band was made to absorb the shock in order to prevent buckling of the case during this operation.
Further experiments were done to try and up gun the weapon using the 27 x 70B round but it was not adopted.
(info above taken from Dale Davis "Historical development summary of automatic cannon caliber ammunition 20-30mm".

All rounds shown below are INERT/empty/primers oiled or fired/fuzes unscrew etc.

20 x 102 Marquardt with container/wire links

003.jpg005.jpg008.jpg

27 x 70B
009.jpg010.jpg001.jpg

.60 cal
The one they were all developed from.
006.jpg007.jpg

20 x 102.
A few of the variations. Amongst them you'll see APDS, practice, HE and test projectiles plus brass, teflon coated case (the green one), graphite coated alloy case (the grey one) etc. etc.
013.jpg

20 x 110.
Some of the variations of 20 x 110 round (for the sharp eyed amongst you yes I realise I have the wrong projectile in the graphite coated one, only realised after I uploaded the photo).
011.jpg012.jpg

Variations together.

Another way of showing how they are all related is that the early rounds share very similar headstamps. The .60 cal rounds were simply re used and up necked to 20mm as required. Its always worth keeping your eyes open for Vulcan rounds with early headstamps, they're quite hard to find but are out there. Hope you enjoyed the photos, lets see what else you guys have to add to the thread by way of info/examples from your collections?:bigsmile:
The first photo shows from top to bottom:
27 x 70
20 x 102
20 x 102 Marquardt
20 x 110
.60 cal
The head stamps correspond t0 .60 cal on left and 27mm on right.

015.jpg016.jpg

Thanks.

Dave.
 
Thanks Dave, some nice specimens there.

This pic from my web article on Military Cartridge Relationships shows the family of four different calibres, next to the three based on the Russian 14.5x114mm:
MCRel2.jpg

My notes from the article:

In 1939 the US Army issued a requirement for an anti-tank rifle capable of penetrating 1" (32mm) of armour at 500 yards (460m). This produced the massive .60" cartridge (15.2x114). The rifle never saw service, neither did the T17 aircraft machine gun (developed from captured Luftwaffe MG151) which was intended to use it. Different designs of .60" machine guns (including revolver and rotary versions) were experimented with but without success.

In the constant USAAF search for higher velocity the cartridge was also necked down to .50" (12.7x114), generating up to 4,400 fps (1,340 m/s) with lightweight incendiary bullets. None of the HMGs came to anything and the cartridges are merely collectors' items.

Ironically the Americans learned the same lesson as the Germans had with the MG151 and necked up the case to form the 20x102 M39 round which has been the standard USAF cannon cartridge since the 1950s. Its most famous application is in the six-barrelled rotary M61 Vulcan cannon, which also serves as the business end of the Phalanx anti-missile system.

The USN decided that the 20x102 wasn't powerful enough, and their Mk 12 cannon (based on the Hispano) could take a longer cartridge, so they simply stretched the case to for the 20x110 USN and fitted a slightly heavier projectile. This cartridge was only ever used in the Mk 12 gun (which saw considerable use in the 1950s and 1960s) plus that strange Mk 11 double-barrelled revolver used in the Mk 4 gunpod.
 
Never got too organized with the 20MM stuff. Due to the quantity, mostly. So, I'll just throw in some pics and answer any questions.

Ordhut shell 005 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 006 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 007 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 010 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 011 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 012 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 013 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 014 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 015 (Small).jpg Ordhut shell 031 (Small).jpg 20MM green.jpg 20MM variety.jpg
 
Thanks Rick, I'm assuming the orange Sabot version is the depleted uranium round, what's the green saboted one, I'm not familiar with that one?
Dave.
 
Dave

I do not know what the projectile cores themselves were made of. The green one was highly coveted as no one had ever seen that color variation. It now resides in one of the more reknowned U.S. collections.

Rick
 
Colour coding for the MK149 APDS sabots for Phalanx is as follows:

Black = DU
Orange = DU
White = Tungsten (current model)
Green = experimental, apparently found as display item only

The MK244 APDS for the new Phalanx Block 1B, which uses a bigger and heavier tungsten projectile = red sabot
 
One question I have always wanted to ask about a 20mm Vulcan round I have is that it is marked " NOT FOR FORWARD FIRING IN AIRCRAFT",would this be, because of the fairly slow velocity of these rounds, that it would be possible for an aircraft to 'catch up' with the projectile and effectively 'shoot itself down'?

Tony

P1020017.jpg
 
One question I have always wanted to ask about a 20mm Vulcan round I have is that it is marked " NOT FOR FORWARD FIRING IN AIRCRAFT",would this be, because of the fairly slow velocity of these rounds, that it would be possible for an aircraft to 'catch up' with the projectile and effectively 'shoot itself down'?

Not the projectile but parts of the sabot, more specialy in the reactor intake.

another one in the family : the 12.7 x 118.5

12.7 x 118.5.jpg

Michel
 
Thankyou Michel,
nice round you have,always been a bit wary of getting one of these in the UK as sometime back I supplied a dealer with some brass 20mm Vulcan cases for the sole purpose of necking down to .50" for wildcatting! so when I do come across one of these for sale in the UK I always wonder if it is one of them:tinysmile_angry_t:

Tony
 
I have also read that the orange sabots are designed to help aircraft carrier crew see them on the deck. This makes it much easier to clear the deck of sabot pieces after firing.
 
I have also read that the orange sabots are designed to help aircraft carrier crew see them on the deck. This makes it much easier to clear the deck of sabot pieces after firing.
That's why they changed from black with the DU rounds.

The current white MK149 (and red MK244) are also easy to see.
 
Not the projectile but parts of the sabot, more specialy in the reactor intake.
Yep - the plastic sabot pieces slow down very fast when discarded after the muzzle, and are liable to get sucked into the air intake, where they melt and cause all sorts of maintenance headaches.

There is one aircraft cleared to use 20mm APDS: the USMC's AH1 Cobra attack helo, which has the three-barrel M197 version of the gun. Here, the gun is much lower mounted than the air intakes, and the rotor downwash would blow the sabot pieces downwards.
 
I remember case markings on these saying"not for forward firing aircraft". Always had the AC-130 in mind.
 
The AC-130 is one of the aircraft where these would be suitable, as the weapons are all side or rearward facing.
Don't know if they have been used as such though.

cheers
Bob
 
The AC-130 is one of the aircraft where these would be suitable, as the weapons are all side or rearward facing.
Don't know if they have been used as such though.

They technically could have been, although all the 20mm guns disappeared from AC130s some time ago - 25mm is the smallest calibre they've been using recently. However, I doubt that they used APDS, since these planes are used for attacking soft targets, for which HE shells are much more appropriate.
 
15.2x114__and_derivatives.jpgMore of the same sort of thing....15.2x114 derivatives....one of them may raise questions (or anyway, eyebrows)
 
#4 from left has a 27x145B projectile on which does not belong to this case.

The #5 at far right looks interesting. What is it? You got any more images or details for us?
 
The #5 at far right looks interesting. What is it? You got any more images or details for us?

Unfinished 20mm case with a 28/20 repro projectile in the end of it (Charley you're a bad man doing that :wink: but thanks for showing them).

Dave.
 
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