This year War and Peace will not be the same as usual, have a look at this nice letter, BenView attachment W&P show rules.PDF
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War and Peace Show Beltring 2012 RULES
- Thread starter Fjordhouse
- Start date
Yep, totaly agree, Ben
hicky1300
Well-Known Member
To be expected I suppose.
Interesting oxymoron in all this in that the `authorities` know we have militaria fairs & that ordnance is sold on sites like evilbay, SA, Gumtree, Gunstar etc but do not actually control it or police it until something goes wrong!
Basically this letter falls in favour of `we don`t understand it, nor can we be bothered to try to understand it`. Ergo they will just confiscate, destroy & prosecute.
Interestingly enough you can by inert ordnance/training items from MOD auctions - so can the MOD be prosecuted for selling it.
It is also perfectly legal (at the moment) in the UK to buy empty SAA brass cases, bullets for same & insert bullet. Obviously bullet is not allowed to be S5 (unless you have FAC) & you are not allowed to have a live primer (again FAC).
Also this letter is onlly being sent to traders that are travelling from outside mainland UK - surely by its tone & content the authorities could stop all vehicles going to & from W & P and search for `illegal` items?
I wanted to buy some item from a Member in France & tried to go through the correct channels - nightmare!1 Basically the answer was that for me as an individual they don`t want me to do it so there is not really anything saying I cannot but there`s isn`t actually anything saying I can!! So if I do do it I will be in the wrong!!
Anyway Ben hope to still see you there? Have a good safe trip over
Interesting oxymoron in all this in that the `authorities` know we have militaria fairs & that ordnance is sold on sites like evilbay, SA, Gumtree, Gunstar etc but do not actually control it or police it until something goes wrong!
Basically this letter falls in favour of `we don`t understand it, nor can we be bothered to try to understand it`. Ergo they will just confiscate, destroy & prosecute.
Interestingly enough you can by inert ordnance/training items from MOD auctions - so can the MOD be prosecuted for selling it.
It is also perfectly legal (at the moment) in the UK to buy empty SAA brass cases, bullets for same & insert bullet. Obviously bullet is not allowed to be S5 (unless you have FAC) & you are not allowed to have a live primer (again FAC).
Also this letter is onlly being sent to traders that are travelling from outside mainland UK - surely by its tone & content the authorities could stop all vehicles going to & from W & P and search for `illegal` items?
I wanted to buy some item from a Member in France & tried to go through the correct channels - nightmare!1 Basically the answer was that for me as an individual they don`t want me to do it so there is not really anything saying I cannot but there`s isn`t actually anything saying I can!! So if I do do it I will be in the wrong!!
Anyway Ben hope to still see you there? Have a good safe trip over
Hicky . Trust me , they monitor everything , all the auction sites , all the collectors sites & personal emails . Everything you type on the internet is monitored . If you have ever ONCE mentioned ordnance , grenade , bomb , ammo etc. in an email or an online listing , you're on their list . The only thing to do is live your life & ignore it , just don't get into anything you would n't want your wife/partner to find out about !! Siegfreid.
I would like to put some balance into this emerging discussion about the movement of inert items to and from shows and fairs.
Putting aside fears of official monitoring of our/your activities I would like to mention the issue of moving items of inert ordnance on our road system. It is highly unlikely that any person with terrorist or criminal intention is likely to take an item of live ordnance to a show and it is highly unlikely that bona-fide traders at shows and fairs would ever trade in live items. But please consider the dilemma that the authorities have in our present security climate when a vehicle is found to be containing such items at a port or is found during routine vehicle checks on our road system. It is not a new concept to treat every item as live until proven otherwise. The production of trade stand bookings etc may appease the authorities but ultimately the decision on how to deal with a vehicle containing items of military ordnance is going to be a serious matter. As the W&P document correctly states, in the UK we have no civil FFE process and the authorities will ultimately rely on the military to make a determination, either by examination and certification or by destruction.
What is the solution? We have debated FFE procedures in the past on BOCN. It may still be an option. In my opinion as a person involved in the enforcement of civilian firearms and explosives legislation in the UK then we have no option but to continue with the "treat as live" policy when items are found in unexpected circumstances.
Putting aside fears of official monitoring of our/your activities I would like to mention the issue of moving items of inert ordnance on our road system. It is highly unlikely that any person with terrorist or criminal intention is likely to take an item of live ordnance to a show and it is highly unlikely that bona-fide traders at shows and fairs would ever trade in live items. But please consider the dilemma that the authorities have in our present security climate when a vehicle is found to be containing such items at a port or is found during routine vehicle checks on our road system. It is not a new concept to treat every item as live until proven otherwise. The production of trade stand bookings etc may appease the authorities but ultimately the decision on how to deal with a vehicle containing items of military ordnance is going to be a serious matter. As the W&P document correctly states, in the UK we have no civil FFE process and the authorities will ultimately rely on the military to make a determination, either by examination and certification or by destruction.
What is the solution? We have debated FFE procedures in the past on BOCN. It may still be an option. In my opinion as a person involved in the enforcement of civilian firearms and explosives legislation in the UK then we have no option but to continue with the "treat as live" policy when items are found in unexpected circumstances.