When did the M34 WP grenade first enter US service?

[clancey2651]

I have been trying to find out when the M15 WP grenade began to end its usage, and when the M34 WP grenade started to take its place. I have come up with dead ends so far, nothing more specific than during the Vietnam War. Can anyone help me with more specific times?

 

[ordman]

When the current inventory ran out. When and where is anybodys guess

 

[V40]

I will try and get the answer on the M34 WP in the next day or so.

 

[V40]

Well, to put it mildly Ordman is correct. I can tell you that the M15 was still being talked about in FM 23-30 (1988). It doesn't say for sure if it is still in use at that time though. The M34 came about near the end of WWII and was called the "T5 Smoke, Rifle Grenade".

Hope this helps you out. Though it is not the complete story of the M34 (A1-A4) this should be a start>

 

[inertordnance]

Well, to put it mildly Ordman is correct. I can tell you that the M15 was still being talked about in FM 23-30 (1988). It doesn't say for sure if it is still in use at that time though. The M34 came about near the end of WWII and was called the "T5 Smoke, Rifle Grenade".

Hope this helps you out. Though it is not the complete story of the M34 (A1-A4) this should be a start>

Can you post a reference to the US T5 Rifle Grenade that you mentioned and its association with a M34 Hand Grenade?

 

[V40]

Not really sure where I got it from now? Hmmm, thanks for setting me straight on that one. Not one bit sure of where that came from? This occasionally happens to me about every 6 months or so.

I should of known this though. May be I can chock it up to the medicine I am currently on? It was basically information on the Rifle Grenade version with WP which was on the M19 and (A1). Initially, it was referred to near the end of WWII as the "T5 Smoke Rifle Grenade. In Vietnam it was mostly used by the Marines on the end of their M14's.

Again my apologies to everyone for this very quick response without looking at the right information. I have the right books though and should of used them first.

 

[V40]

inertordnance,

where you going to supply the man the information he has requested or should someone else take care of that too?:tinysmile_classes_t

 

[inertordnance]

inertordnance,

where you going to supply the man the information he has requested or should someone else take care of that too?:tinysmile_classes_t

The M15 / M34 Question is an interesting one for US Collectors and I plan on some research for accurate answer(s) for both the boards and my benefit. I am currently traveling home from The Shot Show and will most certainly post any verified information / references If found when I return home.

IMHO no response(s) and or additional questions are best if dealing with the unknown and better than me just speculating or making up model numbers / dates / information and posting it.

My earlier response to this thread was simply in reference to your mention of the M34 / US T5 Rifle Grenade Association and also M34 A1-A4 Grenades, as I had never heard of either and was interested to learn more.

 

[EODGUY]

The T5 series grenade did not develop into the M34. The T5 was a WP rifle grenade development program and the T5E1 was adopted as the M19 WP rifle grenade. I'm not sure you will ever find a "T" number for the M34, because the two WP hand grenades were developed under the "E" program. The M15 was previously the E2R16 and the M34 was the E16R2. Kind of intereting how the two numbers are reversed in the two grenades. So far I have not been able to find a fielding date for the M34. The M15 was made standard on 24 Nov 1942. One of my documents has the M15 as Contingency standard in 1975 and the M34 as Standard in the same year. Like was mentioned before though, appearance in a manual does not signify whether the item was still fielded or not. manuals sometimes are not all that current. I have one 1988 FM that has the M15 discussed, but no mention of the M34 for example. Hopefully someone can turn up a date for the M34. I do agree though that M15's would have been issued as long as they were serviceable. There would no doubt be a point in time however when stocks were low enough, or when the ammunition inspectors would certify them unsafe for issue, that stocks would have been destroyed.

 

[Bonnex]

E16r2

Bob,

Forgive the interference from England but if it is any help the Technical Instruction for the E16R2 is dated July 1958.

 

[EODGUY]

N,

The day I ever accuse you of interference will never come. You have a document I do not have and I thank you for the date. I sit here with a room full of documents and it never fails that I don't have the right one!!! Hope things are well on your end.

Bob

 

[Bonnex]

Bob,

I vaguely recollect you giving me the document (when it was freshly printed) which might explain why you dont have it

I will send a copy.

 

[BOMBSaway1980]

Here is a document from 1953

 

[Bonnex]

TI for E16R2

Bob et al,

Herewith the 1958 TI in two parts.

 

[BOMBSaway1980]

For not having the doc you EODGUY was spot on. There is nothing on a T5 WP grenade.

 

[EODGUY]

OK, thanks for the document. If you think your memory is vague just wait. Every memory I have is vague. I don't recall giving it to you, but I may well have. Especially if it happened before lasst week.
Also, as I said above there was a T5 WP smoke grenade, but it was a rifle grenade and the T5E1 was adopted as the M19.

Bob

 

[V40]

"IMHO no response(s) and or additional questions are best if dealing with the unknown and better than me just speculating or making up model numbers / dates / information and posting it."

I didn't nor did I even try IMHO.

 

[Bonnex]

OK, thanks for the document. If you think your memory is vague just wait. Every memory I have is vague. I don't recall giving it to you, but I may well have. Especially if it happened before lasst week.
Also, as I said above there was a T5 WP smoke grenade, but it was a rifle grenade and the T5E1 was adopted as the M19.

Bob

On the subject of Ts you will be happy to hear that hack sawing the frame off the fuze (see photo) restored it to T13.

 

[ordnance]

Here's a bit more on the T5. This is from a secret report on jungle weapons printed in November, 1943.

At that time it was expected 97,000 would be needed for the Pacific theater and 1000 had been produced and delivered in the U.S. Anticipated production for the following month, December, 1943, was 100,000 T5s. No idea how many more were actually produced before they shifted to the M19 but probably not too many. I assume the M9A1 warhead was used without the shape charge cone as the filler weight was listed at 8.5 ounces, the same as the standard M19 WP rifle grenade.

Another pub I have from 1945 refers to the M19 as the T5E1 with procurement in June of 1945 of 180,000 units with 50,000 a month through December.

Unfortunately, nothing more to add on the M34. I have something from the mid-1950s discussing the development of the E16R2 but, of course, can't find it in the pile.

 

[EODGUY]

Unless there were two T5 WP rifle grenade development programs on-going at the same time, which is very doubtful, I think someone took some poetic license with the previous illustration. The first illustration here is the engineering drawing for the T5E1 WP smoke warhead and the second is the drawing for the M19 standardized version. Neither of these have the same profile as the HEAT warhead. Unfortunately I do not have a drawing fo the T5 itself. It is possible the T5 looked like the above drawing and the E1 changed the profile to match my drawings. If that happened, one reason for the change could be because the body for the HEAT grenade is two piece, crimped together at the ridge in the middle. You would never load WP in a two piece crimped body and it would seem to be more trouble than it was worth to weld the two sections together to create a better seal. I tend to think someone erroneously put the HEAT grenade profile in the above report, but I can't prove it. Can anyone else?