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WW1 British 6 pdr tank ammo

T

Tony Williams

Well-Known Member
I have in my collection an AP loading of the usual 57 x 306R Hotchkiss case intended for the 6 pdr 8 cwt and 6 cwt tank guns, which features a shorter projectile than the naval base-fuzed Common Pointed type.

Since the tank gun was used more for engaging machine gun nests and other infantry features, I assume that a nose-fuzed HE was also issued? Can anyone provide details and a photo?
 
Tanks were originally fitted with the naval long-barrelled 6pr 8cwt gun, but it kept getting its barrel stuck in the mud so they cut it short. I thought it was only the later, short-barrelled 6pr 6cwt gun which used the reduced charge? If using full-charge ammo, the muzzle flash and blast from the short barrel would have been quite something.

I presume that tanks with the long-barrelled gun used full-charge ammo, unless someone knows differently?

Contrary to the thread linked to above, I have a round with a short AP shot rather than the base-fuzed CP. I was sold it as that, anyway!

I have just been sent a drawing of a 6pr round as used in tanks and that shows the CP shell. Was that the only type with an explosive filling?
 
The reduced charge was, as you suggest Tony, for the short barrelled 6 PDR 6 CWT Mk II. The only ammunition issued to the 6 CWT Mk II was the steel shell, canister and practice.

Have you a picture of your AP shot? its possible that its the practice projectile which is solid and shorter than the steel shell.
 
It should perhaps be pointed out that the 6 PDR 6 CWT was not simply a 'sawn off' 8 CWT, it was a new design with only a single hydro-spring recoil cylinder compared to the 8 CWT's two.

P6250010.jpg
 
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Tony,

The attached plates may be of interest:




6pr6cwttable.jpg6pr6cwtcase.jpg6pr6cwtcommon.jpg6pr6cwtcommonnose.jpg6pr6cwtsmoke.jpg6pr6cwtsteel.jpg

These are from the Handbook for the Ordnance, QF, Hotchkiss, 6-Pr, 6-CWT, Marks I and II dated 1920.
The Provisional Handbook printed in 1917 refers only to the Steel Shell, Case and Practice projectiles per Q's reply so presumably the Common Nose Fuzed etc projectiles were later, perhaps post-war developments.
 
Great stuff again Bonnex, my info came from a 1919 dated publication so I suspect your correct that the additional rounds are post war developments.
I wonder if the additional types they were ever issued?
 
I used to collect items related to the WW1 Tank Corps, but due to rising costs and the fact that its impossible to collect 'everything' I sold much of it. I had a collection of Postcards which I have gradually sold over time, some I sold just recently may be of interest in this thread. The two images below show the interior of WW1 Tanks, one is a photograph taken in Egypt showing a Mk1 tank and the other is a postcard showing a MkIV tank after Cambrai. I suspect that one of the Sponsons had been removed on the Egypt photograph resulting in a lot of light entering the Tanks interior. The postcard shows a 6pdr round on top of the engine and a couple of rounds leaned against it -also you can see ammunition still in the storage racks......note also the primer protectors. You can also see a Lewis gun magazine which was installed in the MkIV. Earlier Tanks used the Vickers Machine gun and later ones the Hotchkiss guns. No longer have these, some of the last I parted with, but thought worth sharing here...

(the last image shows a 6pdr gun for Naval training, it shows a Naval 6 pounder the basis of the guns incorporated into the first tanks)

regards Kev

027.jpg039.jpg037.jpg038.jpg028.jpg001.jpg002.jpg001.jpg
 
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This is the shorter "AP" round I was referring to, next to the usual CP.

6pr8.jpg
 
Agreed. looks like a practice. Practice projectile is 176mm from base to tip.
Marking on the pictured projectile are:
6 PR I/AN CR
26 7-41 P

steel shell & practice..jpg
 
Nice details from text books but I notice the nose fuzed shell does not have a note that the case is bronzed. Does this mean there was not a similar round for naval service?
 
Does this mean it didn't have a proper HE round in WWI i.e. Lyddite, TNT or Amatol ? The diagrams all show gunpowder fillings, even if the noze fuzed shell has a larger filling. There was already a Common Lyddite nose-fuzed 3-pounder round at the start of the war and I would have thought that was exactly what the tanks needed as they primarily attacked soft targets compared to warships. I can't see a Steel shell being much use against a machine-gun crew or anti-tank gun crew. Unless they were intended to penetrate concrete pillboxes or metal plating protecting machine guns ?
thanks
Rod
Bonnex said:
Tony,

The attached plates may be of interest:




View attachment 86381View attachment 86382View attachment 86383View attachment 86384View attachment 86385View attachment 86386

These are from the Handbook for the Ordnance, QF, Hotchkiss, 6-Pr, 6-CWT, Marks I and II dated 1920.
The Provisional Handbook printed in 1917 refers only to the Steel Shell, Case and Practice projectiles per Q's reply so presumably the Common Nose Fuzed etc projectiles were later, perhaps post-war developments.
Click to expand...
 
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rcbutcher said:
Does this mean it didn't have a proper HE round in WWI i.e. Lyddite, TNT or Amatol ? The diagrams all show gunpowder fillings, even if the noze fuzed shell has a larger filling. There was already a Common Lyddite nose-fuzed 3-pounder round at the start of the war and I would have thought that was exactly what the tanks needed as they primarily attacked soft targets compared to warships. I can't see a Steel shell being much use against a machine-gun crew or anti-tank gun crew. Unless they were intended to penetrate concrete pillboxes or metal plating protecting machine guns ?
thanks
Rod
Click to expand...

Rod the WW1 tanks used case shot (see pic 2 post 6) for soft targets with 6pdr. But also the tanks were either 'male' or 'female' - the female tanks were armed only with machine guns, these were used primarily against troops, the 6pdr guns of the males against 'hard' targets.
not sure if this answers your question.

regards Kev
 
Hi
Apologies for working on an old post, but does anyone know of an illumination round - star shell - for a 6-pounder in the WW1 or post WW1 time frame? The Canadian War Museum has a projectile, clearly marked 6 Pr, that is a carrier shell with an insert very similar to the larger calibre star shells.
Regards
Doug
 
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