ww2 German FLaK41 AP round

[waffenamt]

Here is a nice one i picked up today in a deal.
Fully INERT FLaK 41 with an AP proj.

My question is was this round used for anti-tank duties as i cannot think why on earth you would fire an AP proj at aircraft?
I have another 88 AP round with steel case in the collection too pictured elsewhere on the forum.

cheers

waff

 

[waffenamt]

There is a small crack in the neck not uncommon to these rounds im told?
The plus side is there are some nice stamps and case markings although the AP proj is repainted.
What primer went in here please gents? I may have one for it in the collection?

cheers

waff

 

[pzgr40/42]

Hey Waffenamt,

C/22 if I'm not mistaken.
As for the shell, BdZ 5127.
Note: the 8,8 cm PzGr was not used with this gun.

greetz,

Menno.

 

[waffenamt]

Thanks for the info Menno.:top:

Waff

 

[StielGr]

Note: the 8,8 cm PzGr was not used with this gun.

Very true Menno.

I'm not sure that Waff's projectile is a 8.8cm Pzgr (large base cavity). The rim at the base is too thick.

You can see the thin rim in the picture below (sorry I can't remember who this picture belongs too but if anyone objects I will remove it)

PC

 

[StielGr]

My question is was this round used for anti-tank duties as i cannot think why on earth you would fire an AP proj at aircraft?

cheers

waff

The 8.8cm Flak 41 was supplied with the
8.8cm Pzgr 39
8.8cm Pzgr 39-1

The main reason wasn't for aircraft. The very first KV 1 kill was achieved by a 8.8cm Flak 18 as the 5cm projectiles just bounded off.

So you always need a few AP shells just in case a tank breaks through.

PC

 

[waffenamt]

:top:Thanks SG ,

Thinking about this 'wrong proj' theory,couldnt it just be that the germans used anything they could in the later years of the war?
The case is dated '44.

best

waff

 

[hassiman]

Looks like a KwK 42 projectile with a FLAK 41 case

I might be wrong, but I believe those projectiles were used with the PaK 43 and the KonigsTiger main gun.

 

[HAZORD]

The projo that Waff has shown doesn't have the characteristic large rotating bands of the PAK and KWK 43 projectiles.

 

[thehairbarebunch]

Pak and KWK43 used both the thin (11.4) and the wider (16.5)mm driving bands, there was never "characteristic" driving bands. The original Pzrg39-1 used the narow bands but was found to be inaccurate when fired from worn barrels. As a result, the wider driving bands were adopted (Pzrg39/43).

 

[pzgr40/42]

Hassiman,

As the Kw.K.42 is a 7,5 cm weapon, I can't see how the projectiles used with that gun could be used with an 8,8 cm weapon the likes of an FlaK 41.

greetz,

Menno.

 

[waffenamt]

Hassiman,

As the Kw.K.42 is a 7,5 cm weapon, I can't see how the projectiles used with that gun could be used with an 8,8 cm weapon the likes of an FlaK 41.

greetz,

Menno.

Cheers Menno!

I was thinking the same the other day but i know you lads are more knowledgable in with these rounds so i kept quiet!


best

waff

 

[waffenamt]

Reading through you Gents very interesting posts in this thread beg me to ask the question then,is my round correct?
Its staying in the collection whatever the result so dont be shy!

best

waff

 

[pzgr40/42]

Hey waff,

Keep it, it's OK!
The Flak 41 did not fire the 8,8 cm PzGr (nor, I believe, the 8,8 cm PzGr39/43).
I'll try clarify on some of the Gerry nomenclature however:

The 8,8 cm PzGr was the first 8,8 cm AP projectile provided with the 8,8 cm Flak 18/36/37. The cavity containing the explosive charge (filler) was "large" (that is larger than in the other 8,8 cm AP projo's). The fuze it used was the BdZ fr 8,8 cm PzGr

Next, there is the 8,8 cm PzGr 39, this AP shell has a smaller filler cavity and it uses the BdZ 5127 fuze.

The 8,8 cm PzGr 39/1 is an improved version of shell above, I'm not sure however what the actual improvement involved. Most experts tend to believe this has to do with quality of the steel used for the projo body. Fuze: BdZ 5127

Last but not least we have the 8,8 cm PzGr 39/43. Basically the same shell as a standard 8,8 cm PzGr 39 (this however may have to be corrected into 39/1 as I'm not certain wether or not the hightend quality was standardized for the 39/43) , but the drivingbands are of a new, wider, design to allow it to be fired from worn (more than 500 rounds fired) Kw.K 43 and PaK 43 guns. Fuze: BdZ 5127.

NOTE: the 8,8 PzGr 39, 39/1 and 39/43 are considered to be among THE most dangerous shells when found as misfire/dud (the BdZ 5127 uses a striker pin that functions by means of a spring under tension that is released on impact!!!). These misfires/duds are NOT to be touched under ANY circumstance and are to be destroyed on site.

greetz,

Menno.

 

[RichardB]

Hi Waffy,
Like quite a few of us here, I also own several 8,8cm rounds (flak41, kwk34 etc) and from all the research I have done, I completely concur with Menno and StielGr.....With the 88 being a popular round/proj, its been well discussed.

The only thing I can add is that I believe BWR on the base of your projectile stands for Mitteldeutsche Stahlwerk AG, where it was manufactured.

Rich

 

[waffenamt]

Thank you lads for your very informed replies.
A happy waffy here and the ghost is finally laid to rest.:five:

regards


waff