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1 PDR H identification

R

raymeketa

HONOURED MEMBER RIP
I need a clarification on the ID of the cartridge on the right.

The case headstamp reads W.N.Y. 1-1905 1-PDR.H. E.H.C.L (anchor) S.P.F.

Projectile base reads 1-PDR.T. MKV. B.S.CO. Lot 6-14

Rotating band reads E.P.F.

I can interpret most of the markings except for the B.S.CO and E.P.F.

Gspragge's photo gallery shows this projectile (I think) but calls it a subcaliber. What does that mean?

Any other comments?

Ray
wwgcwo.jpg
 
The subcaliber guns were inserted in the bore of larger Naval Guns on the ships, and fired to give the crews aiming practice. They used the longer Navy 1 Pdr. case but many cases were actually stamped "SUBCALIBER".

They also had subcaliber projectiles, instead of the AP types. The military still uses subcaliber guns, but instead of going through the bore, they clamp onto the 155mm barrels in front of the breech.
 
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Subcaliber Guns

Does the base of the projectile have a threaded hole ? Or something else screwed in ~

Here are the BSC subcalibre guns attached. Also sold as a Landing Gun on a carriage.
 

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The projectile has a threaded (left hand) hole in the base that was empty. It is the same as the MK 5 shown on one of your gallery photos (projectile "D" ?? )

Thanks for the great photo of the sub-caliber guns.

Can I assume that the cartridge could have been used in either the sub-caliber or the 1 Pdr gun??

Ray
 
I sent this off earlier today, but it never arrived, I ,guess. As I could not find a 6 pdr in the Field artillery, I tried the Coast Artillery which at the time was a separate entity. They had a 6 pdr, M1898, used both on a wheeled carriage mount and a pillar mount. Since your case is Frankford Arsenal, an Army supplier, makes sense that it was cut down for a blank. The Navy had both Navy produced rounds as well as private commercial makers like UMC and Winchester. The 6 pdr was rapidly replaced by 3" guns as ships became larger and more heavily armored. Then in ww2, it returned in a more refined version as a antitank gun.
 
The round would have worked in the regular 1pr heavy guns, but they were not sighted for this heavier
projectile as far as I know and it was specific to practice firing. Which is in a way odd because one would think
it would have been a more effective explosive projectile if used that way.The Army had a PD fuze for their version
of the same thing but discontinued them early on and just used these for the same purpose with Coastal Artillery through ww2.
The the Army also basically renamed it the MKll with an HE filling for the 1916 37mm gun and then fiddled around with it until
1928 when the design was finalized.

The red tip indicated an empty or inert projectile ( the older pointed 1pr projectiles can be found with this and a plug for the same purpose, practice firing etc, usually dated after 1899 ), the white band shows that it had a tracer fitted.

What is the designation of the other 1 pr projectile ?
 
Gspragge

Thanks for that great information. I will re-catalog it as a Subcaliber.

As a former USN Gunners Mate, I have to wonder - how did they load and fire those Subcaliber guns mounted on the barrels?

For the other cartridge:

Headstamp is WMFG. CO. 1-1918. 1 Pdr. lot 29 (anchor). JBS
Projectile base reads 1 PDR. COM. MK II MOD I. LOT 58-17. S.M.C. CO.
Rotating band has two anchors with JBS between them.

A fairly typical 1 Pdr Common, I believe. Traces of gray paint. Left hand thread for base fuze.

Thanks again to all who responded.

Ray
 
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It rather looks like somebody had to sit behind and load them.

surviving grey paint (any paint ) is unusual on these, it just didn't stick well over time.
 
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