20mm Hispano Headstamps

[relbut]

I'm hoping someone will be able to help with this request. I am looking for scans or sketches of Greenwood and Batley 20 mm Hispano headstamps. Also Platers & Stampers and any British 20mm Hispano hstps of 1940 and 1945. This is for a drawing project recording WW2 British 20mm Hispano headstamps which may progress into 20mm Oerlikon hstps.
Thanks, Les.

 

[AE501]

All you will get on the base of a 20mm Hispano is: 20mm, Year of manufacture (either the last two digits or all four according to when it was made and the end user) and the Makers mark or initials.
In the case of Greenwood and Batley, Abbeywood, it will be GB.
Platers and Stampers Ltd., London and Manchester, are described as shell manufacturers, so they may not produce cartridges, in which case they will not appear in a headstamp.
There are others on this site who have more knowledge of older headstamps.

 

[TimG]

The monogram for Platers and Stampers "P & S"

See http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/47631-British-20mm-manufacturers?highlight=platers

TimG

 

[AE501]

I forgot where I was and replied on the hyperlink thread you gave me. I hope it gets wiped because there are members on the thread who are no longer with us but are well respected.

I did not put the Platers and Stampers monogram because I thought they only made shells not cartridge cases.
In the thread you mentioned ROF Blackpole who I have as BE.
ROF Blackburn was split into East - BE and West - BW.
Thorp Arch was always TH in my time, but could have been other things earlier. I believe they made a range of signal cartridges going back to WWII.
ICI was Witton and K was Witton, but in 1944 they only made .22 and I recall H50s with 12,000 rounds in them and they were extremely heavy and marked ICI/W.
I do not know if all those factories made 20mm cases.
I have a Hispano case marked RG 52 20MM.
I have Oerlikon as well.

 

[TimG]

AE501,​

I have my doubts as there is at least one error; although BBC is the monogram for the Barking Brass Company the largest item I can find they made were brass closing discs for tracers. BBC in this context should be Bridgeport Brass Company, USA.

Platers and Stampers did manufacture cartridge cases and from what I remember from the contracts it was large calibre only - (but I may have missed some contracts).

I did some research at the time regarding ST initially being the monogram for Steeton & Thorpe Arch - there was an explanation, but for the life of me I can't remember! ROF Steeton did make 20mm. ROF Thorpe Arch "TH" was a filling factory.

TimG

 

[relbut]

Thanks for the replies and I appreciate the effort. What I was really concerned with was the headstamp layout of the manufacturer, year and calibre so that the drawings were correct. I have not seen any GB 20mm Hispano hstps but have accumulated copies of most WW2 British 20mm hstps.
Les

 

[AE501]

Here are some 20mm case bases to be going on with. Only the first five are of interest to you.
There are also some aliens in here that may interest other members.

TimG, my list shows them as the Barking Brassware Co, it also has Brideport rater than Bridgeport. I think someone left the G out of Bridgeport.
There is an ST among the cases below.

 

[Bonnex]

Had a few 20mm on the shelf in the office. Just stood them on the scanner. Forgive the quality, and the Oe's, and the two colourful cases (must bead blast them back to Aluminium one day

Hope they are of some interest.

 

[tigbrand]

View attachment 112404Not 20mm Hispano, but added for reference, Tig.

 

[relbut]

To AE501, bonnex and tigbrand, thanks very much, I appreciate your response. If you would like, when I finish what I can of this project I will PM pdf's of the drawings.
Les

 

[smle2009]

Here are some 20mm case bases to be going on with. Only the first five are of interest to you.
There are also some aliens in here that may interest other members.

TimG, my list shows them as the Barking Brassware Co, it also has Brideport rater than Bridgeport. I think someone left the G out of Bridgeport.
There is an ST among the cases below.

5th photo is a 20x110 Orelikon,not Hispano

Tony

 

[kahu1]

Don't bead blast the colourful ones, they are supposed to be like that(just in case you don't know).
Apparently a wax dye used on the trial alloy cases after WW2,or just send them to me,i'll look after them!

 

[TimG]

AE501,

Yes, you're right it is Brassware - I was morphing the two companies.

You've got two ROF Steeton cases there, the second case withe the triple pheons is an early/sanitised Steeton headstamp.

On the subject of Bridgeport Brass Co. the last case in Bonnex's image is sporting the alternative BBC headstamp. There is apparently speculation that this trademark was only used on Oerlikon cases and the monogram BBC on Hispano cases. However, I believe Sksvlad has an Oerlikon case stamped with the BBC monogram.

Tim

 

[Bonnex]

Don't bead blast the colourful ones, they are supposed to be like that(just in case you don't know).
Apparently a wax dye used on the trial alloy cases after WW2,or just send them to me,i'll look after them!

thanks, I had hoped a few more would turn up. Maybe they still will. The Light Alloy programme is quite an interesting topic and somewhat under recorded it would seem ( unless someone knows otherwise). The Armament Design Department reports for 1947 give very brief details of progress and suggest that the 20mm Hispano Cartridge did pretty well. In another project work was done on a producing a 20mm Hispano drawn steel cartridge; the requirement was withdrawn in 1947 and work on it was stopped and I wondered if this was because the alloy case was showing promise.

 

[TimG]

Bonnex,

I've seen no documentation. However, I heard that there were problems. The cases are very heavily waxed (we have some) apparently there were problems with the molten wax igniting and/or after firing the excess molten wax would solidify causing stoppages.

TimG

 

[Hoeksel]

I made pictures of all my 20x110 Hispano stuff in the collection. I did not limit to UK.

 

[Bonnex]

Thanks Tim. There is probably a raft of reports on the subject somewhere. It is 'just' a question of finding them.

Thanks Hoesel. It was particularly nice to see the K4 headstamp. I grew up near the factory (Yeading. Middlesex) and I dont think I knew that they made Hispano ammunition. I cannot recall seeing one.

 

[relbut]

Hoeksel, Thanks for showing your 20mm Hispano hstps. Now I know what the Greenwood Batley hstp looks like (Hispano.3).
Les

 

[TimG]

Bonnex,

The green Kynoch case on the bottom row, is that green anodised aluminium or lacquered steel? (I presume the former as the requirement for the latter was withdrawn in '47). Any idea where it fits in with the RG aluminium cases and the significance of "BL"?

TimG

 

[Buster]

A few more Al cases.