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2pdr Steel Ammo Box
- Thread starter Gunnerop
- Start date
Do you know what date that illustration is and what type of rounds they are? My copy of RAOS 1943 states
2pr mk VIII gun
In belts C214 28 packed
Bulk C214 30 packed
In belts C218 28 packed
Bulk C218 30 packed
2 pr AT mk IX and X guns
Complete rounds C198 16 packed
Complete rounds C207 16 packed
APCBC C289 16 packed
Blank C207 16 packed
Your box doesn't look like a C designated box. So it might narrow down the date range for you.
2pr mk VIII gun
In belts C214 28 packed
Bulk C214 30 packed
In belts C218 28 packed
Bulk C218 30 packed
2 pr AT mk IX and X guns
Complete rounds C198 16 packed
Complete rounds C207 16 packed
APCBC C289 16 packed
Blank C207 16 packed
Your box doesn't look like a C designated box. So it might narrow down the date range for you.
Gunnerop
Active Member
Hi LCpl,
The illustration is from the armament pamphlet for the Daimler Armoured Car. It is dated 1951. The case is either late or just post WW2. As it is described as 'green' I am assuming it is late WW2. I think the colour of the boxes changed to brown in 1945???
I am specifically interested in the 43/44 period packing. I have a Daimler Mk1 and am putting the p'rops' together for it. See my post in the welcome section for photos of my vehicle.
I am also looking for either a good captive example of a 4" smoke discharger or good photos of one so that I can make these up. 6 were stowed on the vehicle. Also the labels and dimensions for the .303 grenade blank tin, which was stored in the turret.
Regards
Gunnerop
The illustration is from the armament pamphlet for the Daimler Armoured Car. It is dated 1951. The case is either late or just post WW2. As it is described as 'green' I am assuming it is late WW2. I think the colour of the boxes changed to brown in 1945???
I am specifically interested in the 43/44 period packing. I have a Daimler Mk1 and am putting the p'rops' together for it. See my post in the welcome section for photos of my vehicle.
I am also looking for either a good captive example of a 4" smoke discharger or good photos of one so that I can make these up. 6 were stowed on the vehicle. Also the labels and dimensions for the .303 grenade blank tin, which was stored in the turret.
Regards
Gunnerop
Gunnerop
Active Member
Hi,
Thanks for the quick response. I should have known it would not be that simple! Do you have any images of the actual boxes (2 pr AT mk IX and X guns, C198 16 packed, C207 16 packed, APCBC C289 16 packed)
Service colour (SCC No2) is still available as a BS number as one of my trucks is painted this colour. It was used on all manner of equipment including the boxes.
I have a number of the carboard tubes for the rounds. These drop into the stowage bins in the vehicle. The ones I have are post war (dated 1952) and are marked
Cont. No 318 Mk1
SV (Super Velocity??) 1007
C.P.P 1/1952
Also the stencilling on the cases....is this wartime or post-war practice?
Regards
Gunnerop
Thanks for the quick response. I should have known it would not be that simple! Do you have any images of the actual boxes (2 pr AT mk IX and X guns, C198 16 packed, C207 16 packed, APCBC C289 16 packed)
Service colour (SCC No2) is still available as a BS number as one of my trucks is painted this colour. It was used on all manner of equipment including the boxes.
I have a number of the carboard tubes for the rounds. These drop into the stowage bins in the vehicle. The ones I have are post war (dated 1952) and are marked
Cont. No 318 Mk1
SV (Super Velocity??) 1007
C.P.P 1/1952
Also the stencilling on the cases....is this wartime or post-war practice?
Regards
Gunnerop
C190 is the only one I can find unfortunately, no good for you though but it does show cardboard tubes.
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/stephen.johnson/arms/boxe.jpg
taken from http://web.ukonline.co.uk/stephen.johnson/arms/
I have some tubes for 40mm Bofors rounds dated 1943 and these are coloured Service Brown with yellow stenciling. I imagine yours would be similar.
I can tell you the dimensions of C198 Length 14.4" Breadth 14.125" Depth 19.7" 112.5 lbs filled.
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/stephen.johnson/arms/boxe.jpg
taken from http://web.ukonline.co.uk/stephen.johnson/arms/
I have some tubes for 40mm Bofors rounds dated 1943 and these are coloured Service Brown with yellow stenciling. I imagine yours would be similar.
I can tell you the dimensions of C198 Length 14.4" Breadth 14.125" Depth 19.7" 112.5 lbs filled.
2 pdr box C207
Pics attatched of the box i recently bought off the nice belgian dealer Patrick.He mentioned this at Beltring and duly sent me the pics as promised! Top guy,also thanks to Rickoshea for carrying it back to the car about a mile at Detling! Question is to restore or not? Still showing original paint traces.Tony:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
Pics attatched of the box i recently bought off the nice belgian dealer Patrick.He mentioned this at Beltring and duly sent me the pics as promised! Top guy,also thanks to Rickoshea for carrying it back to the car about a mile at Detling! Question is to restore or not? Still showing original paint traces.Tony:tinysmile_fatgrin_t
No, it looks terrible. You should do yourself a favour and get rid of it. I'll take it off your hands if you like 
Is that the original green colour on the inside?
Is that the original green colour on the inside?
Mike P.
Well-Known Member
Gents , If either of you ever find a Metal 2Pdr Ammo box with the clips allowing it to be slid on to the Gun Mount for sale...Please let me know. I've been looking for one for several years now so I can complete my Gun.
Here's a shot of my 2Pdr and you can see where the Box mounts and the clips--
I know --It needs a wash in one pic ..it had just been towed up a Mountain and used for Training .:biggrin:
I'm also still looking for an original Seat
Here's a shot of my 2Pdr and you can see where the Box mounts and the clips--
I know --It needs a wash in one pic ..it had just been towed up a Mountain and used for Training .:biggrin:
I'm also still looking for an original Seat
Attachments
Mike P.
Well-Known Member
I think it is ...from what I can see , it looks like the Box I need (that would clip on the Gun tray) is a bit more heavy duty than the normal transit cans. Also the fact that a Leather Tool Case was bolted to the Box shows it was meant to stay in place.
Here's another shot of a knocked out 2Pdr ...you can see that even though it looks like the rounds blew in place , that leather Tool case stayed bolted on.
The second picture is of a 2Pdr in the J.Littlefield Collection ..this is the exact setup I need to find
Here's another shot of a knocked out 2Pdr ...you can see that even though it looks like the rounds blew in place , that leather Tool case stayed bolted on.
The second picture is of a 2Pdr in the J.Littlefield Collection ..this is the exact setup I need to find
Attachments
Mike P.
Well-Known Member
Here's another fantastic snapshot that shows a Captured 2Pdr being "evaluated" by the victors ...here you can see the config of the inside of the box.
This shot was on Ebay ..I bid high BUT , I was outbid.
I would have loved to have owned this picture ...maybe I'll find it again someday !
This shot was on Ebay ..I bid high BUT , I was outbid.
I would have loved to have owned this picture ...maybe I'll find it again someday !
Attachments
Quatermass
Well-Known Member
The boxes are different, Mike P is looking for a Locker, Ammuntion.
To quote the handbook:
The No.2 ammuntion locker, employed with the mark II carriage, is an aluminium alloy rectangular box with hinged door at the rear.
The box is divided by a shelf into two compartments for containers and internally has riveted to it eight bearing strips for the containers to bear upon or against.
The inner rear face has solutioned to it a sponge-rubber pad, while the inside of the door is also padded with rubber to act as cushions for the containers. The rear end of the locker has two hinge brackets and a strengthening plate on top for the door.
The door has a handle and is fastened at the bottom by a quick-release lever and link attachment, the lever pivoting on the door, while the link pivots on a bracket secured to the underside of the box.
On top are four housing studs for the tool case, while on the underside are four screw-threaded studs with nuts to hold the locker to the carriage.
Tigbrands box is a 'Box, Ammunition, Q.F. 2-PR., C.207'
Both boxes when filled held two 'container, Ammuntion, Q.F. 2-PR. Marks IX and X Guns' which hold eight complete rounds.
Hope that helps.
Quatermass
To quote the handbook:
The No.2 ammuntion locker, employed with the mark II carriage, is an aluminium alloy rectangular box with hinged door at the rear.
The box is divided by a shelf into two compartments for containers and internally has riveted to it eight bearing strips for the containers to bear upon or against.
The inner rear face has solutioned to it a sponge-rubber pad, while the inside of the door is also padded with rubber to act as cushions for the containers. The rear end of the locker has two hinge brackets and a strengthening plate on top for the door.
The door has a handle and is fastened at the bottom by a quick-release lever and link attachment, the lever pivoting on the door, while the link pivots on a bracket secured to the underside of the box.
On top are four housing studs for the tool case, while on the underside are four screw-threaded studs with nuts to hold the locker to the carriage.
Tigbrands box is a 'Box, Ammunition, Q.F. 2-PR., C.207'
Both boxes when filled held two 'container, Ammuntion, Q.F. 2-PR. Marks IX and X Guns' which hold eight complete rounds.
Hope that helps.
Quatermass
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Mike P.
Well-Known Member
Hi QM , Thanks for clarifying that , Locker is the Term I should have used . Also ..my 2Pdr is a 1942 Model on the Mark III Carriage , not the Mark II . I’m not sure if the design change would have affected how the Locker was attached to the Frame. Also , I didn’t want to confuse things before but for the record , there is another style they used for storing the Rounds when the 2Pdr was mounted on a Carrier (Universal Carrier or Portee on back of a Truck).
For that , they used a Rack system where the Cans would be stacked up …
Do any of you ever remember seeing an Ammo Locker with the Leather case still attached at any of the shows ? ...there's no way I'll ever find that or the Seat here in NY :tinysmile_angry_t:
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Quatermass
Well-Known Member
Hi Mike, the No.2 (also known as the Mk 2) ammunition locker was used with the Marks II and III carriages. The Mark III carriage differed from the Mk II by having a different suspension consisting of a new pattern cross spring, No. 375 axletree and larger No. 31 pneumatic wheels.
I'd guess that rack syle locker was used in the S.P. mounts because there was no other convenient place to store the ammunition containers.
The Mk I carriage used the No.1 (also known as the Mk 1) ammunition locker.
Quatermass
I'd guess that rack syle locker was used in the S.P. mounts because there was no other convenient place to store the ammunition containers.
The Mk I carriage used the No.1 (also known as the Mk 1) ammunition locker.
Quatermass
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Pictured are 3 variations of .303 grenade Launching Blank (.303 H MkIz) tins.GunnerOP said:
L to R: Australian MF (Footscray), English RL (Royal Laboratories, Woolich), and New Zealand CAC (Colonial Ammn Co)
Square tins measure 2 1/2" H x 2 3/8"W x 1 1/2"D, round tin is 2 5/8"H x 2 1/8" Dia.
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