.303 British Clandestine POF Production

[bdgreen]

Surplused out of England these .303 British have no headstamp and are packed in 20 round boxes with no markings. The packing/shipping cases show evidence of the internal lid label having been removed by heating (charred wood, see picture) and the ammunition case type designation on the bottom of the case has been removed with a wood chisel or similar tool. The cartridges have a GMCS projectile that weighs 176 grains, 41 grains of tubular powder and are berdan primed.
These .303 are attributed to Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF) production in the early 1980s and were intended for Afghan Mujahideen fighters, apparently part of U.S. aid during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the early 1980s. For further discussion see: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16489. Photographs and much of the information presented here was provided by IAA Forum & BOCN Forum member xjda68 and used here with his permission

 

[Bellifortis]

These were surplus cartridges manufactured by POF. In the 1980's even the Pakistani army did not use them anymore. A very clever international arms dealer bought this surplus for a small buck and was able to convince some CIA supply agent that the Mujahedeen used guns in this Cal. This was a crazy fairy tale, but shows the absolut incompetence of some of the big players. When Pakistani authorities found out about this deal (which could not be reversed, the money was gone), the whole shipment was brought back to POF to remove the headstamps and all markings (at very high costs), because the Pakistani government did not want their involvement in this buisiness known at that time internationally. Mad politics. So these are quite rare collectors cartridges that have a story to tell.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

 

[bdgreen]

Bellifortis,

Thanks for your input.

But I have to ask: Remove the headstamps? Re-boxing the cartridges in new boxes without markings?

Having handled a 20 round box of these cartridges I can tell you that these cartridges show no sign of having the head cut down to remove a head stamp. In fact the rim thickness on these cartridges measures out the same as a .303 Mk7 by Radway Green. And the cartridge heads are flat across the head just like most other .303 cartridges. No tool marks anywhere on these cartridges. Just clean smooth brass, as you would expect with any properly manufactured cartridge.

In a scenario like you present why would POF go to such an expense for ammunition they "no longer" use, when scrapping out the cartridges and there by destroying any evidence "of their involvement" would make more sense.

As far as "rare collector cartridges" go, these are readily available, in single box and case lot quantities, here in the U.S. and I imagine they may show up elsewhere in the future.


Still these are an interesting cartridge with an intriguing story (stories)!

Brian

 

[smle2009]

.....why would POF remove their own headstamp if they bought them back anyway?.....and of course machining a headstamp off would make the ammunition unusable due to making the headspace settings of the weapon incorrect.........yes a great story but a wrong 'un me thinks

Tony

 

[TimG]

I have great problems with 'Sanitised' ammunition, the omission of the headstamp makes it stick out like a sore thumb. In this case, they're made even more unique by utilising the wrong size primer. If you want to disguise the origins, just use a headstamp from WWII era - it wouldn't warrant a second look from an intelligence officer, it's what he would expect.

In this scenario, having made the 'sanitized' ammunition why package so that it can be traced back to the manufacturer? (supposedly P.O.F.).

The British haven't used this type of box for SAA for the best part of 70 years, but to be fair this box is certainly not in the 'first flush of youth' but 800 rds wasn't an option (is that the correct lid for the box?). The markings, paint and station labels are loosely of British style. The quality is not what I'd expect to come out of P.O.F. It looks more like someone's attempt to make the packaging appear British/POF.

TimG

 

[Bellifortis]

I also have been thinking about the removal of brass and the ensuing problem. The above account is by Mohammed Yousaf (Brigadier General of Inter Services Intelligence of the Pak army) in his book, The Bear Trap,copyrighted in germany in 1992. I will reproduce the chapter (page 82) as a verbatim translation for your kind consideration:
"In the middle of the year 1984 a shipment of 100000 .303-rifles reached Karatchi. After we (ISI) protested, that we did not order this immense quantity of guns and had no room to store them, the CIA answered that this was already meant to include the supply for 1995 besides the current one.......They explained to us that they had bought the lot very cheaply in India. On my question, why the indians should sell guns to us, even when they knew that these were used against their allies the soviets, I got the answer: The indians are real bastards, you can not trust them. For money they will sell their mother.
With the ammun ition a pakistani arms dealer made a lifetime deal. He managed to sell to the CIA 30 Million rounds .303 ammunition out of his office overseas, without telling about the real source.At a price of about 35 cents per cartridge, the arms dealer was a made man. The CIA did not know that the ammunition came from old storage of the Pak army, who did not use these guns any more. A ship was loaded, left Karachi for a few days, turned around and we got info from the CIA, that our ammunition had arrived. When some of the ammo boxes were opened in Rawalpindi, we found out that each cartridge had a POF headstamp. If this ammunition had been fired in Afghanistan, this would have been proof, that Pakistan was arming the guerillas. So each cartridge had to go back to POF to be unstamped. This work took about 3 years and a lots of money. Once again the loser were the american taxpayers and the Mudjahedeen."
As I mentioned before, this is an account from a published book by one of the big players. I have learned to question every published news and that you can not believe anything if you did not see it for yourselfes. But, as far as I can judge, the info given in this book seems to be very near the truth or as far truthful as intelligence personnel are able to.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
P.S.: If, as Brian told, this ammunition is now again sold on the international marketplace, I wonder if the same arms-dealer sold them a second time. And, I have a technical question: What tooling would be needed to remove the headstamp and get the above pictured usable result ?

 

[Bellifortis]

http://www.afghanasamai.com/Dscutio...BearTrapDefeatofaSuperpowerMohammedYousaf.pdf
Here is a link to the english language version of the book, free,online. It's really worth a read. The german edition meanwhile is offered for 40-200 Euros, second hand.
Enjoy,
Bellifortis.

 

[hangarman]

And, I have a technical question: What tooling would be needed to remove the headstamp and get the above pictured usable result ?

Last edited by Bellifortis; Today at 07:12 PM.

I would say that it is impossible to remove the head stamp without making the base and rim of the cartridge thinner. If the head was turned on a lathe to remove the head stamp then the primer would stand proud.Who would want to do that to a live round?

Just my tuppence worth.... Gary​

 

[bdgreen]

This thread has certainly taken a "strange" twist, definitely not my intention when I started it! :tinysmile_shy_t:

By the way an 800 rd. case of this .303 ammunition costs $565 U.S and a 20 round box is $14.99.

Brian