Does anyone on BOCN have any information on the 30mmx165 Honeywell Experimental Dummy circa 1972. I know this was produced around the time of the A-X (Attack Experiment) Programme during the early 1970's when the Northrop YA-9 and Fairchild A10-Thunderbolt went head to head in the competition for a new dedicated Ground Attack airframe. The A10 won and so did General Electric with their 30mm GAU8-A Avenger cannon. The Philco-Ford weapon which the 30x165 round was intended for never got past the experimental stages hence these rounds are pretty rare now. I cant find any photos or data on the Philco-Ford 30mm weapon or detailed info on the ammo. Does anyone know or have any info on either the gun or the ammo? Would be really grateful for anything on this subject. If i cant turn up anything i will consider writing to the Pentagon to see what they have in their archives section. The 30x165 i bought at Malvern was the first ive ever come across, does anyone else have any? Regards, Tim.
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30x165 Honeywell Experimental Dummy 1972. Philco-Ford.
- Thread starter Jagd301
- Start date
The Philco-Ford round you have was their competition round for the GAU-8 weapon system. The case of the actual loaded rounds was 167mm long (you may also see some references refer to it as 168mm long). You will notice on your dummy round a small steel surface above the case mouth which brought the case to the 167mm length. The small steel surface was part of the design of the durable dummy hence the shorter case. The round you have is a Durable Dummy that was intended for use in weapon cycling tests and other tests where cartridge rigidity was important. The hex head in the primer pocket is actually a long rod that screws into the base of the projectile so the projectile could not be jammed back into the case on repeated use. Non-Durable Dummies were also made with inert primers and the projectile crimped into the case in the normal fashion without the rod. Philco-Ford rounds were loaded in aluminum cases, which was one of the Air Force requirements for the ammunition to cut down weight for the aircraft. Some of the Philco-Ford rounds used a cut down Winchester .225 cartridge case with an M34 percussion primer inserted into it for the case primer. The round was used in the Philco-Ford designed version of the GAU-8 prototype, but the weapon failed to be adopted and it and the ammunition dropped into obscurity. They are really not all that scarce in the US because there were many of them made and a lot were kept as souveniers at the end of the program. At the same time they aren't the most common round encountered either. The photos I have are examples of the Philco-Ford durable and non-durable dummies I have. The two on the far right are actual TP loadings.
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Thanks very much for that information as its the most detailed response ive had on the subject to date. Its certainly an interesting round collecting wise and the one i bought on Sunday was the first one ive ever seen offered for sale after looking out for one and several of the big shows. i would certainly like to obtain more examples so will keep my eyes open. The chap i bought it from said they are not a common round, a bit like the Aden Low Velocity-not exactly mega rare but expensive where available. Thanks again for your most valued input and i will make note of the details you have given-fantastic stuff and what i like about the BOCN. Regards, Tim.
Wondering if it is too late to drag up an old thread?
I'm terribly sorry to dredge up such an old thread, but I think I might have one of these rounds, and I was wondering where I could get more information on it. It looks the same as yours and has a lot of the same characteristics, but instead of having a Allen-head in the base, it has a shiny flat silver primer (I think) You cant tell from the pictures, but the primer area is dark silver.
The case is aluminum plated in a brass colored material. It sounds like it has powder in it when I shake it.
Could this actually be a live round?
I bought it at a military surplus store here in Oklahoma for about $10 I think back in 2005.
Thanks in advance.
I'm terribly sorry to dredge up such an old thread, but I think I might have one of these rounds, and I was wondering where I could get more information on it. It looks the same as yours and has a lot of the same characteristics, but instead of having a Allen-head in the base, it has a shiny flat silver primer (I think) You cant tell from the pictures, but the primer area is dark silver.
The case is aluminum plated in a brass colored material. It sounds like it has powder in it when I shake it.
Could this actually be a live round?
I bought it at a military surplus store here in Oklahoma for about $10 I think back in 2005.
Thanks in advance.
Hi nice round.
There's a really good 2 page article all about the gun and ammunition on pages 80 and 81 of the July/August 2011 copy of "The Armourer militaria magazine".
Dave.
Hi Purdy,
While it is unlikely that the round you purchased all those years ago from a surplus store is live it is not out of the question either so i would say that if you have any concerns at all about it i would contact the relevant authorities in your area and have the item dealt with.
Best regards Weasel.
While it is unlikely that the round you purchased all those years ago from a surplus store is live it is not out of the question either so i would say that if you have any concerns at all about it i would contact the relevant authorities in your area and have the item dealt with.
Best regards Weasel.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Chinn's The Machine Gun Volume 5 has a brief chapter on the Philco Ford GAU-8/A (and lots of other experimental US weapons). The books are rare but you can pick up the whole set on CD now. Also look for Dale Davis' classic work: Historical Development Summary of Automatic Cannon Caliber Ammunition: 20 to 30 Millimeter. This is about USAF projects up to the 1980s, and is a must-have for cannon ammo enthusiasts.
Three of the Philco-Ford guns were made, and 100,000 rounds of ammunition. The guns differed from the successful GE gun in having six rather than seven barrels. They proved unreliable on test.
Three of the Philco-Ford guns were made, and 100,000 rounds of ammunition. The guns differed from the successful GE gun in having six rather than seven barrels. They proved unreliable on test.
Long time no-see, good to have you back.