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47mm Hotchkiss Revolving Cannon Case Head Stamp ID

A

ammofo

Well-Known Member
I picked this up today and have got as far as figuring out that it's a 47 x 131R for a Hotchkiss revolving cannon.........but is it French or British ?!!
I suspect it's French due to the anchors being identical to the one the French provided to the Japanese. I'm just not sure about the CF - What do people think ?? Is it 'Cartouche Francaise' or 'Cordite Full charge' ??

The ring around the primer could fit either, though the Brits used this style less than the French.
DSCN0223.jpg
 
My vote is for English. Elswich Ordnance Co. Nordenfelt ring around primer, CF cordite full charge. EOC made many of these for the Japanese.
 
Thanks for your reply, I did wonder about the E inside an O, but I've only ever seen their mark as EOC ('interlinked' letters). Is this an earlier mark of theirs then ?
 
Looks indeed a Japanese !

The marine anchor with 2 'waved lines' on top is the Kure arsenal marking.
The E in a circle (read inverterd E in a circle) was the Katakana for the Yokosuta arsenal.

I'm quite sure Olafo (or other Japanese collectors) know a lot more on this case.
 

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orpheus72 said:
Looks indeed a Japanese !

The marine anchor with 2 'waved lines' on top is the Kure arsenal marking.
The E in a circle (read inverterd E in a circle) was the Katakana for the Yokosuta arsenal.

I'm quite sure Olafo (or other Japanese collectors) know a lot more on this case.
Click to expand...

Your attachment is VERY useful indeed, but now I think I'm a bit confused !!
What are your thoughts on the CF mark - that would normally be a British 'filling station' mark - suggesting that such rounds would have left Britain completed and the Japanese stamps were merely inspection marks. Does this make sense?
 
Ammofo,

Olafo did a very extended article on Japanese Ammo in "The Cartridge Reasearcher" end 2014 early 2015.
I've added a small extract where he explains the CF marking on a 47x131 case

Especially that second part of the theory is somewhat revolutionary or controversial perhaps, as it at first appears to be at odds with the relatively commonly (in the UK) encounteredcombination of an EOC marked case, with a projectile that as sole marking has a simple anchor. But, let us quickly cut to the chase there: remember the ‘Cf’ marked 47x131R
cases? It is highly likely, in fact quite certain to me, that the Cf marked cases were manufactured in Japan, for export to the UK (possibly around 1915-1916). So far I have at
least not seen a single Cf marked case in Japan, whereas they are seen in the UK (which is logical, as the Cf marking is essentially a British one). At least one of my Cf marked cases has a
struck through ‘f’ so by all means it seems that the Cf marked cases were actually used in the UK. The Cf marked cases that I have seen (as shown on the left) have a slightly different head
than the EOC manufactured ones, and... ...they often feature one or more simple anchors!
Click to expand...

I notified Olafo about this thread, and he might make the whole article public (as that's not up to me to do so)

I hope it helps a bit.
 
For what and why would the British need the 37x131 case in ww1 ??? I know
of no use for this in British service ?
 
From what I've read, the 47 x 131 (I presume your "37" to be a 'typo') was in Royal Navy Service to deal with the threat of torpedo boats and other light craft. How much use it actually got in combat is something I might need to look further into, but the argument in the linked article is very compelling indeed.
 
I thought i would add another pair from my collection, one is marked EOC and has what appears to be a Japanese acceptance stamp the other is not marked EOC and has the E in a circle and a CF with struck out F.
Best regards Weasel.



P1060614.jpgP1060615.jpgJap Acc.jpg
 
Last edited:
Weasel said:
I thought i would add another pair from my collection, one is marked EOC and has what appears to be a Japanese acceptance stamp the other is not marked EOC and has the E in a circle and a CF with struck out F.
Best regards Weasel.



View attachment 123312View attachment 123313View attachment 123314
Click to expand...


I had my hands on another couple of these rounds today at an auction viewing...an EOC one with Japanese markings and a 'simple' anchor on the projectile (NO CF), and the other one was screwed onto a base so I couldn't see the bottom, though there was no anchor on the projectile. I'm not sure I fancy forking out £70 to get to unscrew it though !!
 
"From what I've read, the 47 x 131 (I presume your "37" to be a 'typo') was in Royal Navy Service to deal with the threat of torpedo boats and other light craft. How much use it actually got in combat is something I might need to look further into, but the argument in the linked article is very compelling indeed."
Yes indeed a Typo ~

I have never heard of this, though material on hand could have been pressed into service. But I would really like to see a proper
source on this ? The Royal Navy never seemed to warm to Hotchkiss beyond the 3 & 6 pr guns from what I have seen.

I could use a Hotchkiss Paris 47x131 case if any one has a spare.
 
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