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5.3cm Gruson

E

earni74

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hi Guys, these are a pair of 5.3cm ( GRUSEN ) rounds, as you can see, they are not like the normal / common anti balloon gun rounds ( round nosed fuzed )

Question 1.... do the projectiles belong to the cases

Question 2.... do the fuzes belong to the projectiles

the fuzes are dated 1899 & 1905 and are EP stamped ( BELGIUM )

one of the cases is German 1888 & the other is Italian 1902
All comments are welcome020.jpg021.jpg022.jpg024.jpg025.jpg026.jpg027.jpg
 
The projectiles do look like the 5,3 cm in the Gruson document. But I am not aware of Belgium use of this caliber! How long are the projectiles? Are you sure they are 5,3 cm and not 5,7 cm?
 
If the cases are 176mm long, they are right for the 53mm forrtress guns used by the Belgians., The rotating bands are correct for Grusen, but the shape of the projectiles is more modern, as the dates show.
 
My 2 cents worth, the projectiles appear to be of Belgian manufacture on the Gruson pattern. The German case
could be original export to Belgium for this type of gun, there after Belgium made it's own. The Italian case would
indicate that Italy also bought or made the same guns under licence and made cases. They also could have used
the German case early on too. Maybe the Belgians also sold this material to Italy - there are many possibilities --
and likely no for sure answers ~
Of course I could be totally wrong !
 
001.jpg002.jpg003.jpg004.jpg001.jpg002.jpg003.jpg004.jpg022.jpgthankyou for all your comments, but as you can see from the additional photos, the 2 rounds in my original post are to the left of the more common grusen round, the projectile bodies are the same diameter as are the rotating bands & the cases are all the same length, the case rim diameters are all the same.

I have looked at the drawings & dimentions of the 5.7cm, but I am not convinced, all I can say (my personnel view) is that during a war, ammunition amongst other military hardware evolve as the war goes on,and is not always recorded in official printed documents.

More comments will be welcome, THANKS
 
Hello,
case marked PIROTECHNIA ARMATEI it's no Italian. Italy didn't use this gun. Case is Roumanian. I know also French made cases for Roumania and marked 53 ROUMANIE

here anothrer Roumanian round
4232244M.jpg4232247Z.jpg4232254a.jpg
regards
 
Many thanks to all who commented, I am satisfied that all 3 of my Grusen rounds are correct and maybe, the fuzes are still mystifying some of you ( and me ) and hopefully someone will come up with a definitive answer.
THANKS
 
Gspragge said:
My 2 cents worth, the projectiles appear to be of Belgian manufacture on the Gruson pattern.!
Click to expand...

At least the "Gwk" marked projectile was not made in Belgium, it was made by Fr. Krupp Grusonwerk after 1893.

The german made case was made for export.
 
Thanks Alpini, and everyone else for their input.

The fuzes are for Nordenfeld rounds, after checking all the rounds in the collection, ( which I should have done in the 1st instance ) these fuzes match the ones on my Nordenfeld rounds.

Thanks once again
 
If your projectiles are Belgian made which is what I think, then the fuzes would likely be what you have. It is possible that both rounds ended up in Romania, it is well known that they used Gruson fortress turrets and so on. The German export case could easily have gone to Rumania and the Rumanian case speaks for it self. Where the Rumanians source projectiles etc over time is the question, but Belgium exported also, especially after Nordenfelt left Maxim and went to Belgium.
 
Bit of necroposting, considering I found this thread four years late, but this is such a specialised subject, I had to put my two cents in.

First off, I can confirm that yes, the shells are indeed Romanian - I have two cases with the same markings (Feb. 1888 on mine, but who's counting).

53ro_bottom_1000.jpg

When it comes to the Belgian fuze, Romania has in fact captured several 57mm Cockerill-Nordenfelt guns from the Germans at the battle of Mărășești (August 6, 1917 – September 3, 1917), and one of them is on display at the National Military Museum in Bucharest, unfortunately misidentified as a Hotchkiss.

img_1683.jpg

Also, a few years ago, metal detectorists found a cache of 57mm Belgian ammunition. Here they are before being detonated by Romanian EOD. As you can see from the picture, they weren't very sure what they were facing, which is why they also blew up the otherwise totally inert case shot alongside the common shells...

proiectil.jpg

So all in all, it's totally possible some Belgian fuzes ended up on romanian 53mm shells during the war, even though I'd bet on some later shenanigans in the collector's market, because Romanian fuzes are waaay harder to come by than Belgian ones.
 
many thanks wingsofwrath for your comments and interesting photo's, the fuzes on my 5.3cm projectiles hang over the tip of the top of the shell by about half a millimeter not perfectly flush as they usually are, that was my doubt
Mick
 
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