7.92mm Cartridge - WWII German?

[peregrinvs]

Hi,

Many years ago, I purchased an inert 7.92mm round at the town park war museum in Calais. The markings are PK / 35 / DZ / 67

Is it a WWII German round?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[archmoco]

Mark,

The round would be Polish. here is a good site:



Twelve o'clock position is the casemaker's mark. Pk for Pocisk. At the three o'clock position is the year of manufacture. At the six o'clock position is a marking indicating the supplier of the cartridge brass, and at nine o'clock is a marking indicating the percentage of copper in the brass alloy, either 67% or 72%. Twelve known brass supplier codes, and these include B, D, DZ, E, F, Fr, Hr, K, N, NW, W and an arrow. DZ for Dziedzice-Walcownia Metali.

http://www.cruffler.com/Features/FEB-02/trivia-February02.html

 

[peregrinvs]

Thanks for that - very interesting. It would never have occurred to me it might be Polish.

Did the Germans use captured Polish 7.92mm ammunition? I know they re-used captured Polish bayonets as I own an example.

I forgot to add that it has a cupronickel jacketed bullet and a small hole has been drilled in the side of the case.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Dutch]

In September 1939 the Germans occupied Poland.
The head stamp became more and more a German style.

 

[archmoco]

Mark,

The man to speak to is Dutch, he's the expert. I've a very small collection of Polish rounds, 2 post war rounds, 3 post war dug relics in bag condition, but interesting as they are Platz wooden tipped rounds, and a couple of 'kam' wartime under German occupation rounds. I've a fired case with the same headstamp as yours except mines 1934, if you PM me with your address i'll send you one, think I might have a spare 'kam' double too.

the link below is a good related thread on the box identification (p), I don't have any of the (p) boxes myself but i've a (t) which is Czech.

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/76462-German-7.9-SmK-(p)-Label

As you can see from Dutchs' photo below you have the pre-war headstamps and then under German occupation the headstamp changes to become more inline with the German manufacturers.

Regards
michael

 

[Dutch]

To be honest, the ammo and labeling at the beginning from the Plant Skarzysko-Kamienna is a little confusing to me.

The plant was occupied in 1939. Hasag (Hugo Scheider A.G) used there good connections in Berlin and together with a company called Rochling they took over the temporary management of the former PWU. From August 1941 alone and HASAG buy the plant in 1943.

There are German boxes known packed with 15 round S and sS bullets
Inside, a mix of Polish rounds from 1928 until 39. The box is only stamped with “S, oL Polnish” and “SC,oL Polnisch”

The first HASAG head stamp (2e Lot of 1940) is packed in a box with only a printing “Fr Gewehr” on top. No further label.
In 7.9 there are only sS (heavy ball) cn plated bullets from 1940 known.

The first SmE (lead replaced by an iron core) is known from 1941. They were still made with Polish materials. (cn bullet). If a factory used non German material, the round was not made to German specs. It could be the case, powder, bullet or primer. It was printed always on the label like (f), (b), (h), (p), (t), and so on.

The first German sS bullets came from P491 and later they made the SmE bullets by there self.

In 1943 the rest of the Polish brass cases were send to Germany were they made blanks of them.

Hope I could help a little

Rgds
Dutch

 

[archmoco]

Many thanks Dutch, will have to cut and paste this into my notes!

 

[peregrinvs]

I've a fired case with the same headstamp as yours except mines 1934, if you PM me with your address i'll send you one, think I might have a spare 'kam' double too.

Hi Michael,

That's very kind, but I don't specifically collect non-British SAA and I'm sure other people on the forum could give them a more deserving home. The round came out of a box of misc items I'd collected when I was a child - mostly various sorts of postwar pistol and rifle cartridge cases. I might try and post a few I can't identify on here at some point.

Cheers,
Mark