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76 mm AP
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
I think that this IS, definitely a 76mm APCBC that has lost it's caps. I have an exploded one that has been blown in half and it is 200mm long. The band is missing but the driving band seating groove is about 28mm wide. I know that mine came from an up-gunned Sherman 76mm that fought here in Normandy. It is from a Sherman that fought on Hill 140 as part of Worthington Force, the Canadian Armoured force that became disoriented during a night move and occupied the wrong hill. I found my exploded 76mm on this hill, along with a fired M79, which would also have been fired by an up-gunned Sherman. I have found APCBC 76mm before with a base plug exactly like this one. I imagine they would have been fired just to utilise the piercing capability of the shot and not fuzed to explode after piercing. I would be very surprised if there is any explosive content in your projectile. Being a fixed round there was no way the gunner could have inserted a base fuze in it to make it more lethal.
Sometimes there are grooves on the shortened AP projectile for the attachment of the piercing cap, sometimes not. I have seen both. Perhaps they exist under the rust ? All this is only my opinion, based on what I have found here on the battlefields of Normandy. But in truth, it is CERTAINLY long enough to be APCBC without caps. Very interesting post indeed.
Sometimes there are grooves on the shortened AP projectile for the attachment of the piercing cap, sometimes not. I have seen both. Perhaps they exist under the rust ? All this is only my opinion, based on what I have found here on the battlefields of Normandy. But in truth, it is CERTAINLY long enough to be APCBC without caps. Very interesting post indeed.
Are you sure about the origin of your shot? AFAIK, Commonwealth armoured units did not have any 76mm gunned tanks in Normandy.
Early version of the 3 inch M62 A.P.C. without cap and windshield.
This was used before the introduction of the M66A1 fuze and contained no explosives.
The base was closed by a steel base plug which contained a tracer cavity.
Thank you all for your help
Regards,
Chris
This was used before the introduction of the M66A1 fuze and contained no explosives.
The base was closed by a steel base plug which contained a tracer cavity.
Thank you all for your help
Regards,
Chris
I took some measurements of the rotating bands on my fired 76mm M79 AP-T projectiles and the length of the main body on my sectioned 75mm M61 APCBC-T projectile. The 75mm M61 and 76mm M62 are the same projectiles with the exception of the rotating band.
The fired rotating bands measure right at 30mm wide, and the length of the main body of the M61 from base to tip is 200mm.
The fired rotating bands measure right at 30mm wide, and the length of the main body of the M61 from base to tip is 200mm.
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Early version of a 3" M62 APC ???? Found in Nijmegen !!!! If it is a M62 APC, then it would have had a piercing cap, otherwise it would have been called an AP projectile. The AP projectile was shortened and given a blunt nose to accept the piercing cap. Yours has this rounded nose, so it has been shortened to accept a cap. So it is a APCBC projectile..... minus all caps. My opinion only.
Hi TankBarrel.... the ammo I have all came from one location in Normandy. A desolate, wind swept hill famous for the battle Worthington Force fought against German forces on 9th August 1944. After the battle the Germans were pushed back towards Falaise and eventually into the Pocket. I am not aware of any other battle being fought on this hill as by this stage the battle was pretty fluid and fast flowing. The shells I have are from a tank battle.... M79 AP, M62 APC and an unfired M61 75mm APC. This I assume is from a Sherman that was destroyed during this battle and obviously blew out of the turret with no damage to the projectile....a truly horrifying prospect. I have also found identifiable large fragments from German 8,8cm Pzgr and double banded 7,5cm Pzgr...from Tiger and Panther respectively. So, I am pretty sure they all came from this clash of 9th August.
I have about 6 76mm Cartridge cases and they were all made in Canada..either DB/C or CL/C headstamps. I have to admit though that the photos I have that were taken of the scene of the battle in 1945 show Shermans with 75mm guns, which would tend to point towards your belief. I think they must have had a mixture of the two, or perhaps even a M10 with a 3" gun ?? Another possibility.
Either way, the subject is fascinating. I go to the battlefield a lot. It tends to make one more aware of the utter futility of war. There is a spot nearby where the German Kurt Meyer watched the Canadian armoured forces building up for the attack. What must he have been thinking ? I digress. Nice talking to you.
I have about 6 76mm Cartridge cases and they were all made in Canada..either DB/C or CL/C headstamps. I have to admit though that the photos I have that were taken of the scene of the battle in 1945 show Shermans with 75mm guns, which would tend to point towards your belief. I think they must have had a mixture of the two, or perhaps even a M10 with a 3" gun ?? Another possibility.
Either way, the subject is fascinating. I go to the battlefield a lot. It tends to make one more aware of the utter futility of war. There is a spot nearby where the German Kurt Meyer watched the Canadian armoured forces building up for the attack. What must he have been thinking ? I digress. Nice talking to you.
Hi Flak - Wow! - a fired M79 in Normandy? Can you post a few pictures by any chance? Also what is the nearest town from where it was found? Also, what type are your 76mm cartridge cases - M26?
The Americans had classified the M79 as substitute standard well before the invasion and probably never issued it for combat in NW Europe- they designated it for training only. I'd be surprised to find that the Canadians/Commonwealth troops came to a different conclusion and issued it, unless it was because of an ammo shortage. Or maybe the spot where it was found was also used as a gunnery range?
It would definitely have been fired by a Canadian/Commonwealth M10. I don't think the Canadians in Northwest Europe ever used 76mm Shermans. The 1st Polish armored division, which fought within the First Canadian Army used 76mm Shermans but not until well after the Falaise battles.
The Americans had classified the M79 as substitute standard well before the invasion and probably never issued it for combat in NW Europe- they designated it for training only. I'd be surprised to find that the Canadians/Commonwealth troops came to a different conclusion and issued it, unless it was because of an ammo shortage. Or maybe the spot where it was found was also used as a gunnery range?
It would definitely have been fired by a Canadian/Commonwealth M10. I don't think the Canadians in Northwest Europe ever used 76mm Shermans. The 1st Polish armored division, which fought within the First Canadian Army used 76mm Shermans but not until well after the Falaise battles.
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This is going to sound a bit lame, but I'm hopeless with computers and have not yet figured out how to post pics on here. I can send them to an email address OK...maybe you could PM me your email address ? The nearest town, well, small village, is Assy and it's quite a hike from there. My cases, all Canadian manufacture are the standard M26. In fact, I have never seen a US made M26 case. All the ones I see here on market stalls are Canadian. Strange. Isn't history great ? I forgot to mention, even though they were lost, one of the artillery forward observers with them contacted his battery and got them to fire 3 Smoke shells, which landed about 1800 metres from the actual location of Worthington Force...I actually found a Smoke shell on the other side of the hill from where they were.
Pictures from Flak18 of his finds where the Canadians and Poles fought;
That 3rd picture does look like M79 - almost certainly fired from either a Polish or Canadian M10 TD.
I was hoping the rifling could confirm it, but it turns out both Sherman and M10 barrels had 28 groove rifling with right hand twist.
Still leaves the question unanswered as to how a nearby farmer could have found M26 76mm cases in a hedgerow when there should have been no 76mm Shermans there...
That 3rd picture does look like M79 - almost certainly fired from either a Polish or Canadian M10 TD.
I was hoping the rifling could confirm it, but it turns out both Sherman and M10 barrels had 28 groove rifling with right hand twist.
Still leaves the question unanswered as to how a nearby farmer could have found M26 76mm cases in a hedgerow when there should have been no 76mm Shermans there...
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