Another 5.3cm ID

[Burney Davis]

I realise there are already a number of threads on 53mm Gruson rounds but they don't appear to answer the questions I have.

The picture below shows three projectiles of 5.3cm caliber which I understand to be Gruson, or GRuson type. The projectile heights are (without fuze) are 144mm left and center and 154mm on the right. The projectiles left and center are the same, one with a fuze and one with a plug. The longer projectile on the right has a slightly different driving band and the fuze threads are considerably finer. The fuze is incomplete. All three came as they are in 'Romanian' cases




- I assume that the fuzes are original to the projectiles. Does anyone know the fuze designation on these?
- Are all three of these Romanian made projectiles and fuzes or are they foreign imports?
- The cases were marked on the base 'Pryotechnia Armatei', 'P.A' or 'P.A.H'. Are these cases Romanian production and all by the same manufacturer?

All comments greatly appreciated.

 

[wingsofwrath]

First off, the cases are indeed all Romanian and made by the same manufacturer, "Pirotehnia Armatei" (written in the period as "Pyrotechnia Armatei" and initalled PA), the Romanian Army Pyrotechnics Facility in Bucharest. As you can see from the image below, the headstamps simplified as time went by, from full "name + year" in the 1890s, to "53 (calibre), PA, year" by the 1900s and, finally, by the 1910s, a simple three letter code representing the place of manufacture (PA) and the origin of the metal (in this case "H", for "Hirtenberger Patronen, Zündhütchen und Metallwarenfabrik") as well as the year. Also, the top right one is from the original German made batch of ammunition from 1888-89 before the Romanian production was started.



As for the shells you posted, I can confirm the fact the left and centre one are Romanian. The middle has a transport plug, but the left one definitely has a variation on the M.1887 fuze I haven't seen before, because it has a solid instead of a two-piece body. I speculate this is a transitional model between the M.1887 and the M.1888 fuze which has the same internals but a modified, single piece body with a wide "crown" (initially flat and later knurled) to make it easier to thread by hand in the field.
Here is a plan of the fuze as well as an image of three fuzes in my collection - one M.1887 and two M.1888.



The rightmost shell you posted is not Romanian and I have no idea what country it's actually from, but my guess would be Switzerland (where it's known as "5,3-cm-Kanone 1887 L/24"), because Greece adopted the Fahrpanzer in 57mm and Bulgaria had the same ammunition as Germany, so it was probably placed in the Romanian case afterwards.
I have seen one like it before (third from the left), but fitted with a German Gruson fuze which obviously is also not original to the shell. The forcing band is also identical to the German and Bulgarian pattern as can be seen from the image below.

 

[Burney Davis]

First off, the cases are indeed all Romanian and made by the same manufacturer, "Pirotehnia Armatei" (written in the period as "Pyrotechnia Armatei" and initalled PA), the Romanian Army Pyrotechnics Facility in Bucharest. As you can see from the image below, the headstamps simplified as time went by, from full "name + year" in the 1890s, to "53 (calibre), PA, year" by the 1900s and, finally, by the 1910s, a simple three letter code representing the place of manufacture (PA) and the origin of the metal (in this case "H", for "Hirtenberger Patronen, Zündhütchen und Metallwarenfabrik") as well as the year. Also, the top right one is from the original German made batch of ammunition from 1888-89 before the Romanian production was started.

View attachment 180481

As for the shells you posted, I can confirm the fact the left and centre one are Romanian. The middle has a transport plug, but the left one definitely has a variation on the M.1887 fuze I haven't seen before, because it has a solid instead of a two-piece body. I speculate this is a transitional model between the M.1887 and the M.1888 fuze which has the same internals but a modified, single piece body with a wide "crown" (initially flat and later knurled) to make it easier to thread by hand in the field.
Here is a plan of the fuze as well as an image of three fuzes in my collection - one M.1887 and two M.1888.

View attachment 180482 View attachment 180483

The rightmost shell you posted is not Romanian and I have no idea what country it's actually from, but my guess would be Switzerland (where it's known as "5,3-cm-Kanone 1887 L/24"), because Greece adopted the Fahrpanzer in 57mm and Bulgaria had the same ammunition as Germany, so it was probably placed in the Romanian case afterwards.
I have seen one like it before (third from the left), but fitted with a German Gruson fuze which obviously is also not original to the shell. The forcing band is also identical to the German and Bulgarian pattern as can be seen from the image below.

View attachment 180484

Once again, quality information on these, much appreciated.