Brit L28A1, L4A1 and L4A2 DRILL + L3 PRAC grens

[batonroundcollector]

what is the difference between the L28A1 (don't think there was an L28A2 etc?), L4A1 and L4A2 DRILL grens, all being visually similar?

other than the screw plug designs, what is the difference between the L3A1, -A2 and -A3 PRAC grens? would have though if correct shape and weight of L2 grens for throwing practice, there would be no need to further refine these??

re the 'Modified' L3s in bottom left of diagram below - were these official factory-made variants, or is this a suggestion for unit armourers modifying standard L3 types with pins for added realism? never seen L3s modfied like this on the surplus market...

 

[sgtlynn]

L28's have a solid aluminum body, the L4 bodies are the same as a live grenade but filled with a HE Substitute.

 

[batonroundcollector]

aha thanks so L4s will have the frag coil intact? so are solid aluminium grens easier or cheaper to produce than inert filled ones? guess the L4A2 is the L4A1 what the L2A2 is to the L2A1 (the live grens) - i.e. 'with a redesigned fuze well for ease of mass production'?

 

[sgtlynn]

Solid aluminum bodies can simply be turned out of solid stock, so yes, easier and cheaper. They are also more durable, don't dent too much like the thin sheet steel bodies of the L4

 

[batonroundcollector]

just bought an L28A1, to go with L4A2 I have; however, am unsure about L30A2 fuze that came with L28A1 as it is different to L30A2 I have with my L4A2 (it could well be it is just earlier/later manufacture, even though kept same designation?) - see below (fuse I got with L28A1 that I am questioning is without the drill det piece - top one in first pic):

the one I got with L28A1 has no washer, no recess in lip above where washer would be, deeper /longer thread, and the det plug does not look it would have profile to fit the drill det piece that other L30A2 has...

is this L30A2/the parts original to L28A1 I have? any thoughts?

 

[batonroundcollector]

btw... this 'L28A1' (at least marked as such) here is of interest as looks like it has sheet steel body (end cap missing) rather than solid aluminium body??

http://lexpev.nl/grenades/europe/unitedkingdom/l28serie.html

 

[batonroundcollector]

I now have all three L3 PRACs: L3A1, L3A2, and L3A3

 

[orpheus72]

btw... this 'L28A1' (at least marked as such) here is of interest as looks like it has sheet steel body (end cap missing) rather than solid aluminium body??

http://lexpev.nl/grenades/europe/unitedkingdom/l28serie.html

This "L28A1" marked one was in my collection years ago. (i made the pictures for alex's site in 2010).

It was indeed a sheet metal body with frag coil present, filled with a brownish semi-transparant inert substance.

I always wondered if it was a re-paint job (so it could have gotten a wrong designation during the repair/restore actions)

 

[TimG]

I stand to be corrected, but I suspect your L3A1 was used in trials. The reverse is marked REQN - Requisition, OB 3689 - Ordnance Board reference number (admittedly low unless they started afresh sometime post war), Item E - identifier.

TimG

 

[Bonnex]

I stand to be corrected, but I suspect your L3A1 was used in trials. The reverse is marked REQN - Requisition, OB 3689 - Ordnance Board reference number (admittedly low unless they started afresh sometime post war), Item E - identifier.

TimG

It dates from c.1966 and was, as you say, used in trials of the Grenade, Hand-Rifle, Anti-Personnel L2A1 (X5E1); Fuzes Percussion L25A1, L25A2 and L25A2 (modified); Adaptor, Grenade, Projection L1A1; and Cartridge, 7.62mm, Rifle Grenade, L1A2. 'Item E' was used in the 'final' L2 development trials where the trial called for Inert/HES grenade bodies (note that a trial might call for Inert Bodies and Live Fuzes). The trials are reported in OB Proc 40404. The Practice notation L3A1 was used for the inert grenades in these trials but there are examples of L2A1 markings used on inert grenades with otherwise Practice or Experimental livery (see image below).

 

[batonroundcollector]

TimG and Bonnex - thanks for info - interesting! so the L3A1 I have is a trials item and not 'production' version? so was the PRAC type trialled at same time as the 'live' L2A1 and introduced together? I thought experimental ordnance was either painted purple or had purple stripe, unless there is a different meaning between 'trials' and 'experimental'?

if mine is trials, I'd like a 'regular' L3A1 (not sure if any changes were made, other than of course dropping trials markings?) too if anyone has one?

 

[Bonnex]

TimG and Bonnex - thanks for info - interesting! so the L3A1 I have is a trials item and not 'production' version? so was the PRAC type trialled at same time as the 'live' L2A1 and introduced together? I thought experimental ordnance was either painted purple or had purple stripe, unless there is a different meaning between 'trials' and 'experimental'?

if mine is trials, I'd like a 'regular' L3A1 (not sure if any changes were made, other than of course dropping trials markings?) too if anyone has one?

Yours is a survivor of the trials programme, and is special for that, but it was not the actual subject of the trials that I mentioned. The HE (L2A1) and the live L25 Fuze were the items under trial and the Inert (L3A1) was used to provide a carrier for the live fuze (and sometimes the projection adapter). Typically a combination of an Inert (L3A1) and a live Fuze (L25) was used to test a safety feature of the Fuze, for example one test required grenades fitted for rifle projection to be fired, with the safety pin in place, at short range at a thick steel plate. In a sense the Inert (L3A1) was a piece of expendable trials apparatus. I would expect the Inert (L3A1) grenades to have been taken from stock and the additional stencilling (Requisition number etc.) put on as a Depot task. Because they were not the actual subjects of the trial I would not expect to see any purple paint.

The HE (L2A1) grenades for the trial were taken from production. Stencilling would include the requisition number and 'ITEM D'. It is possible that these grenades (and the fuzes) would have a purple stripe but I would be guided by AE501 on this matter.

Sorry this is more waffle than useful info.

 

[batonroundcollector]

thanks for the info Bonnex - so these trials were after each of these items had been adopted by the Army? would be interested in more about the the development/service of the L2 series and related training grenades; also, interested in the end of service of the Mills which was being replaced...

 

[Bonnex]

thanks for the info Bonnex - so these trials were after each of these items had been adopted by the Army? would be interested in more about the the development/service of the L2 series and related training grenades; also, interested in the end of service of the Mills which was being replaced...

Yes, these particular trials were carried out after the grenade and accessories were approved for service. The grenade (or rather the Fuze L25A2) had functioned prematurely three times during a trial at Pendine in 1965 and the OB 40404 trial that your grenade featured in was concerned with evaluating modifications that had been proposed by RARDE to eliminate the premature functioning and other failures.

You will likely know that the HE grenade (L2A1) had a chequered history. The UK Armament Design Department had been experimenting with wire-wound hand and rifle grenades during WW2 but the end of the war was quickly followed by financial cuts which ended of many munitions development programmes. Grenade projects were effectively trashed and work on wire-wound, rocket-assisted and magnesium bodied grenades ceased and the files and models destroyed. During the 1950s War Office Policy Statement No 82 specified the characteristics required of a fragmentation hand grenade; it was a return to the work of the wire-wound team. Fortunately the specification was largely met by the US M26 and it was proposed to acquire supplies from the USA. However, and this is the point where it goes wrong, the British engineers and scientists would not countenance an un-shuttered lead azide detonator being incorporated in a fuze which was assembled to the grenade body during production; the M26 was shipped with the fuze fitted. RARDE designed the X5 grenade and fuze (X40) with associated packing that would ensure the necessary separation to avoid mishaps in storage or transportation. Unfortunately when assembled together the detonator in the fuze occasionally failed to detonate the grenade body. Thus there began a 50 year or so struggle to produce a reliable fuze and grenade combination which was finally achieved in 2002 with the introduction of the Grenade Hand HE L109A1!